Concertgebouw

[Sergeant Rock]

Someone I know just booked tickets for Staatskapelle Dresden playing Bruckner's Die Nullte and Wagner's Liebesmahl in Frauenkirche under Minkowski this June.

That looks like interesting program to me.

It does look interesting, very interesting (it should make Marvin salivate)...but the concert is in the Frauenkirche, not the Semperoper. Still, I'm considering it.

Sarge

[hautbois]

I am a DIE HARD Concertgebouw Orchestra fan. Everything everyone listed here are legendary recordings by their own right, except the Boulez which i have never heard of. I cannot emphasize more how perfect those ballet recordings Dorati made with the Concertgebouw were, if only Swan Lake was ever recorded with the same forces! They also produced a wonderfully performed but badly remastered Ma Vlast available on Eloquence if one doesnt mind the over-noise reduction which i found rather annoying.

With Haitink, my favourite recordings are the Haitink Debussy (twofers), Ravel (twofers), Brahms (Piano concertos with Arrau, Violin concerto with Henryk Szeryng), and the tremendously under rated Tchaikovsky cycle.

Again the Scheherazde with Kondrashin to me has no competition, despite its lack of precision in certain places (the ship wreck scene here is the only one that has a real storm and sea!), and that Borodin 2nd, though not better than perhaps Rozhdestvensky's Chandos recording, literally shows how much the musicians enjoyed playing the symphony. 

The Ashkenazy Rachmaninov recordings are ultra romantic, perfect is not even close to describing them. I don't understand why the piano concertos with LSO were chosen to be reissued rather than the RCO cycle with Haitink. The orchestra's strings are so warm here that Decca should be ashamed of themselves for reissuing the LSO instead, and in my very own humble opinion, Ashkenazy was on fire in these recordings, much more than he was on the LSO recordings. Oh the winds contribute so beautifully, i get goosebumps just by thinking of how beautiful the wind solos were, time to pop in Rach 4!

One recording that everyone should listen to if not yet is Ancerl's Dvorak 8th with RCO. There are many many spectacular Dvorak 8ths, but the horns here in the 4th movement brings shame everyone of them. Again the string playing here is sublime, an experience that stays close to my heart.

As for Chailly, Ravel's Daphnis, Hindemith's Kammermusik, Stravinsky's ballets, and the Bruckner cycle are some of my favourites. Bernstein did magical things with the Concertgebouw, and although small in number, are all worth mentioning.

Everything Harnoncourt did with the Concertgebouw are worth listening, check them out!

For any serious fan of the orchestra and the big conductors of the 20th century, the anthology of Concertgebouw is a must. Volume 3 is especially enjoyable, with the likes of Szell (The live Sibelius 2nd here is more blaring than the studio one, amazing! Apparently, he really liked working with the orchestra!), Monteux, Boulez etc.

The tradition of the Concertgebouw has been rapidly dying out since Janson's* tenure. More and more non-Dutch school musicians are hired because of their technical capabilities, but the sound that we have once come to know as the "Concertgebouw sound" is no where to be found. Sad....and to hear so much complain about the programming, who can possibly revive the orchestra to its former "glory"?

Howard

* The recent Shostakovich 7th is SPECTACULAR, but where is the sound? Perhaps the strings still play the same way, but the winds. What a pity!

[hautbois]

Beautiful performance of Shostakovich's Jazz Suites!

http://forums.avro.nl/kco/kco%20podcast/82CF742B-8B27-486C-810E-83939D2E94AD.html

Forgot to mention that Chailly's Shostakovich rarities are some of my most revered cds as well.

Howard

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

That was a wonderful declaration of love you have written there, hautbois. I wish someone at the Concertgebouw would read it...

[Josquin des Prez]

Not that I'm an expert or anything, but Monteux's Eroica with this orchestra is superb.

It's more then superb, it's utterly sublime. I can't believe this record has remained out of print for long. A re-issue is sorely needed.

[Bonehelm]

Berstein's late DG recording of Mahler's 1st with RCO is also good, if not great.

[Marcel]

Berstein's late DG recording of Mahler's 1st with RCO is also good, if not great.

Right. Wonderful performance !

[MishaK]

Anyone who loves the Concertgebouw should get some of these live radio broadcast recordings. The sets are a bit expensive, but worth every penny. Lots of unusual and 20th century repertoire (e.g. Martin, Vermeulen, Berio) plus wonderful performances by guest conductors (a Giulini Bruckner 9th, a Franck Symphony in D with Ancerl, etc.). The fact that all of these are live and taken over such a long span of time attests to the consistency and excellence of the ensemble.

Thne first one may be OOP.



WAGNER:  Flying Dutchman Overture (Bruno Walter, 15/3/36).  BUSONI:  Violin Concerto (Adolf Busch/Bruno Walter, 12/3/36).  RAVEL: Concerto for the Left Hand (Paul Wittgenstein/Bruno Walter, 28/2/37).  WEBER:  Konzertstück in F Minor (Lili Kraus/Bruno Walter, 19/10/39).  STRAUSS:  Till Eulenspiegel's Merry Pranks (Paul Paray, 18/1/40).  ROSSELLINI:  Stampe della vecchia Roma (Paul van Kempen, 17/12/42).  RAVEL: Mother Goose Suite (Ernest Ansermet, 19/2/40).  FRANCK:  Symphony (Willem Mengelberg, 3/10/40).  BERLIOZ: Benvenuto Cellini Overture (Pierre Monteux, 12/10/39). SAINT-SAËNS:  Piano Concerto No. 4 (Robert Casadesus/Pierre Monteux, 12/10/39).  DEBUSSY: La Mer (Pierre Monteux, 12/10/39).  FRANCK: Les Eolides (Pierre Monteux, 12/10/39).  MAHLER: Das Lied von der Erde (Kerstin Thorborg/Carl Martin Oehman/Carl Schuricht, 5/10/39).  MALIPIERO:  Cello Concerto (Enrico Mainardi/Eduard van Beinum, 12/1/41).  REGER:  B–cklin Suite (Herman Abendroth, 20/2/41).  ELGAR:  Enigma Variations (Adrian Boult, 29/2/40).  HONEGGER: Pastoral d'ÈtÈ (Jan Koetsier, 22/7/43).  HAYDN:  Piano Concerto in D (Gerard Hengeveld/Jan Koetsier, 22/7/43).  MOZART:  Symphony No. 40 (Eugen Jochum, 23 & 24/6/43).  STRAUSS: Don Juan (Herbert von Karajan, Sept. 1943).  OTTERLOO:  Sinfonietta (Willam van Otterloo, 16/1/44).  REGER:  Violin Concerto (Georg Kuhlenkampff/Willem van Otterloo, 16/l/44).  BRAHMS:  Academic Festival Overture (Jan Koetsier, 5/3/44).  MAHLER:  Symphony No. 1 (Bruno Walter, 16/10/47).  MENDELSSOHN:  Fingal's Cave Overture (Otto Klemperer, 4/12/47).  BRUCKNER:  Symphony No. 4 (Otto Klemperer, 4/12/47).  WAGENAAR: Cyrano de Bergerac Overture (George Szell, 1/7/48).  ANDRIESSEN:  Organ Concerto (Hendrik Andriessen/Pierre Monteux, 1/11/50).  HINDEMITH:  Symphony in E Flat (Paul Hindemith, 12/1/49).  SHOSTAKOVICH:  Symphony No. 7 (Rafael Kubelik, 9/2/50).   BEETHOVEN:  Symphony No. 1 (Wilhelm Furtwängler, 13/7/50).  BEETHOVEN:  Symphony No. 5 (Erich Kleiber, 28/4/50).  BEETHOVEN:  Leonore Overture No. 3 (Wilhelm Furtwängler, 13/7/50).  BRAHMS:  Symphony No. 1 (Wilhelm Furtw”ngler, 13/7/50).



Details here



Details here.



Details here

[bhodges]

I can only chime in wholeheartedly with O Mensch on these boxed sets, which are the most amazing anthologies of any orchestra in the world.  Many groups have released excellent sets (e.g., Chicago, Cleveland, NY Phil), but no one else has done so many, and over such a long span. 

Some of them can be hard to find, but I've bought at least one on eBay.  Some I purchased from Kuijper Klassiek, which is now defunct, alas, and at least one came from HMV Japan.  Well worth seeking out.

--Bruce

[bhodges]

That was a wonderful declaration of love you have written there, hautbois. I wish someone at the Concertgebouw would read it...

Yes, a lot of passion in there, Howard!  I have most of those recordings, too, and mostly agree with you in your assessments.  I do think the orchestra's "sound" is still there, even with Jansons.  If anything, though, he would impress me even more if he encouraged the group to sound different, playing different pieces.  When the orchestra came here last month, they sounded great--no doubt in the least--but I felt like all three nights had the same plush upholstery: Debussy sounded like Mahler.  It's churlish to complain, of course, when the caliber of playing is at such a high level, but I wanted just a touch more variety.

And I forgot to mention my favorite Concertgebouw recording, which is with Chailly:

Mosolov: Iron Foundry
Prokofiev: Symphony No. 3
Varèse: Arcana

--Bruce

[BorisG]

Concertgebouw favorites:

Bruckner - Haitink
Dvorak - Harnoncourt
Mahler - Bernstein, Haitink
Bartok - Dorati
Martin - Chailly
Messiaen - Haitink
Prokofiev - Jarvi
Reger - Jarvi
Shostakovich - Haitink, Jansons
Stravinsky - Chailly

[hautbois]

Concertgebouw favorites:

Dvorak - Harnoncourt

Reger - Jarvi

How could i have forgotten about these? A SIN! The Hiller variations are beau-ti-fully recorded! In my own opinion a very good representation of the Concertgebouw sound of that period, better than most of the Philips recordings that i know. The Dvorak symphonic poems are to die for. What a wonderful orchestra! 

Howard

[Iago]

Ashkenazy and the Concertgebouw are a perfect pairing in the Rachmaninoff Symphony #2 on Decca/London.  A "beautiful thing" if there ever was one. Gorgeous playing, great recording, superb conducting.

Another absolutely great recording is on Phillips DVD. (Not sure if its available on cd). Beethoven Symphonies #4 and #7. Carlos Kleiber conducting.

The profound joy on Carlos Kleibers face as he conducts. The superb molding of each phrase (with visual cues eliciting exactly the appropriate sounds) and the razor sharp responses from the orchestra are wonders to behold.

[hautbois]

Ashkenazy and the Concertgebouw are a perfect pairing in the Rachmaninoff Symphony #2 on Decca/London.  A "beautiful thing" if there ever was one. Gorgeous playing, great recording, superb conducting.

Another absolutely great recording is on Phillips DVD. (Not sure if its available on cd). Beethoven Symphonies #4 and #7. Carlos Kleiber conducting.

The profound joy on Carlos Kleibers face as he conducts. The superb molding of each phrase (with visual cues eliciting exactly the appropriate sounds) and the razor sharp responses from the orchestra are wonders to behold.

The list goes on and on. The sheer virtuosity of the wind section is apparent in the 4th symphony. These recordings of the 4th and 7th symphonies are MY definitive ones. Kleiber was in his top form. What a recording...

Howard

[Hector]

Berstein's late DG recording of Mahler's 1st with RCO is also good, if not great.

Why is it not great, which it is, by the way, and only good?

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Why is it not great, which it is, by the way, and only good?

Erm, I think he is saying it's great, Hector, but only tentatively ('if not' = 'perhaps even').

[bhodges]

In addition to the anthologies by decade, there are also boxes assembled by conductor: Mengelberg, Van Beinum, Haitink and Chailly.  My favorite is the Chailly box, which includes some excellent Berio and Stravinsky performances, along with a live Mahler Eighth Symphony from the Mahler Feest in 1995.  (Track list here, although they seem to have left off the recording dates. )  The final disc is a DVD with The Firebird Suite, Pulcinella and The Rite of Spring, all recorded inside the Concertgebouw from Christmas Day concerts, and it's almost worth the whole box by itself.

--Bruce

[dirkronk]

In addition to the anthologies by decade, there are also boxes assembled by conductor: Mengelberg, Van Beinum, Haitink and Chailly. 

Apparently, then, they are ALL good. Haven't heard the Chailly myself, but the Mengelberg is a splendid collection, with a number of comparative rarities, and as a long time collector of his recordings, I was happy to get this box at any price. The surprise--for me--was the Haitink box. For years, I tended to avoid Haitink, finding him all too bland in too many studio recordings, but the Radio Recordings in the Concertgebouw box were an absolute revelation, presenting this conductor leading his orchestra in taut, amazingly focused and exciting readings. Very highly recommended.

Dirk

[MISHUGINA]

I had just the most blessed oppurtunity of listening to Carlo Maria Giulini conduct the Bruckner 9th with this revered orchestra. Best Bruckner 9th ever! Don't ask me how I got it =P

Other favorite RCO recordings:

- Mahler; Bernstein's M1, Haitink's M7 from RCO anthology, Chailly's M3
- Chailly's Shostakovich Jazz suites, Dance and film music. sublime!
- C.Kleiber's live Beethoven 4 & 7
- Brahms Violin Concerto with Szeryng/Haitink

[bobby quine]

It's years now since I last went. The programming is too unadventurous for me.

I was there in January for the Carter day - among the works performed that day were Ives' The Unanswered Question and Carter's Double Concerto, as well as his Horn Concerto from 2006.