Brahms Chamber Music

[Mandryka]

WoW! This Hamelin/Leopold Trio disk of Brahms is fantastic.

Maybe not so shocking. I've never heard the Leopold Trio but Hamelin's record of Op 119 is good.

[Mandryka]

I'm playing the late Brahms String quintet Op 111 with Hefetz and Pennario and Piatigorsky. I like it: I especially like the almost total absence of that autumnal feeling that people feel inclined to give late Brahms. It's the only recording of Op 111 I can put my hands on -- I have the Juilliards somewhere but I just can't find it.

Someone I know was at a Haitink concert last night in Chicago and they said that in the pre concert talk Haitink said that the opening to this piece was originally a 5th symphony. For some reason Brahms destroyed the symphony though.

Hence my motivation for digging out this music -- and what a pleasure it is!

[Herman]

I'm playing the late Brahms String quintet Op 111 with Hefetz and Pennario and Piatigorsky. I like it: I especially like the almost total absence of that autumnal feeling that people feel inclined to give late Brahms. It's the only recording of Op 111 I can put my hands on -- I have the Juilliards somewhere but I just can't find it.

The 111, G major is a happy work. The quintets are not amply available in the catalogue.

[jlaurson]

WoW! This Hamelin/Leopold Trio disk of Brahms is fantastic.

Fantastic, yes. But that's not saying that Domus is a lesser recording. In fact, if I absolutely had to chose between the two...

...That's stiff competition for the players on the Hyperion set, the Leopold String Quartet (Marianne Thorsen, Lawrence Power, and Kate Gould) who perform with that most nimble-fingered of all pianists, Marc-André Hamelin. And for a recording of all three Quartets, their strongest competition might not be the Beaux Arts or Wanderer Trio, but the Piano Quartet "Domus" on a budget Virgin re-issue.


Although I've cherished the Domus recording for many years now, I've never bothered to look up (or remember) its members. What a surprise then – or rather: how perfectly logical – to find that Domus is essentially the expanded Florestan Trio with Susan Tomes (piano) and Richard Lester (cello), violist Timothy Boulton and, instead of Anthony Marwood, the genial duo partner of Tomes', Krysia Osostowicz, on violin. (Before disbanding, Domus had also been taken onto Hyperion's artists roster.)


Hamelin's slightly dryer and more enunciated playing and the closer recording make the Leopold String Trio's performances more straight-faced and less reverberant than the modestly indulgent Domus. The chugging cello line of the op.25 second movement sounds so refined with the Leopold's Ms. Gould, she could pass as playing the viola. And while the Leopold/Hamelin combination sounds incredibly and impressively fast in the concluding Rondo alla Zingarese, there's not the sense of a turbulent, hair-down execution as with Domus (much less Argerich & Co.). For those in favor of leaner, longer lines in Brahms, the immaculate and civilized Leopold/Hamelin combination (exploring technical extremes without ever sounding challenged) might be the preferred version. Whatever the case, few would likely complain if these were their only versions of the Quartets...

[Antoine Marchand]

Fantastic, yes. But that's not saying that Domus is a lesser recording. In fact, if I absolutely had to chose between the two...

Fantastic, yes, indeed... but please don't forgive the most exhilarating version available of the Op. 60, coupled with the piano quintet in F minor, opus 34. Of course, La Gaia Scienza, on period intruments. 

[asin]B00005CCZ0[/asin]

[Mandryka]

The 111, G major is a happy work. The quintets are not amply available in the catalogue.

I've been playing the Hagen Quartet's CD continuously in the car for the past couple of days and I am very very impressed. This is nice music.

It's made me see that the Heifetz is completely weird and rather shallow, but nevertheless quite fun, rather like that Mozart sting quintet he recorded. Hagen finds much more feeling and the phrasing seems totally right. They seem to be responding to each other as they play; there's a sort of space between the players -- the tones are sort of balanced, all the voices seem to settle and sit together, everything has room to breath. I'm not expressing myself well here, and anyway I'm not sure how much is due to the sound engineering and how much is due to the ensemble. Bottom line -- I like it.

I also found a recording by the Leipzig Qurtet which left no impact on me whatsoever. My Juilliard CD is still missing.
[asin]B0000012YW[/asin]

[snyprrr]

I've been playing the Hagen Quartet's CD continuously in the car for the past couple of days and I am very very impressed. This is nice music.

It's made me see that the Heifetz is completely weird and rather shallow, but nevertheless quite fun, rather like that Mozart sting quintet he recorded. Hagen finds much more feeling and the phrasing seems totally right. They seem to be responding to each other as they play; there's a sort of space between the players -- the tones are sort of balanced, all the voices seem to settle and sit together, everything has room to breath. I'm not expressing myself well here, and anyway I'm not sure how much is due to the sound engineering and how much is due to the ensemble. Bottom line -- I like it.

I also found a recording by the Leipzig Qurtet which left no impact on me whatsoever. My Juilliard CD is still missing.
[asin]B0000012YW[/asin]

Talk about MAKING me buy something!! pant pant

[Sergeant Rock]

I've been playing the Hagen Quartet's CD continuously in the car for the past couple of days and I am very very impressed. This is nice music.

It's made me see that the Heifetz is completely weird and rather shallow, but nevertheless quite fun, rather like that Mozart sting quintet he recorded. Hagen finds much more feeling and the phrasing seems totally right. They seem to be responding to each other as they play; there's a sort of space between the players -- the tones are sort of balanced, all the voices seem to settle and sit together, everything has room to breath. I'm not expressing myself well here, and anyway I'm not sure how much is due to the sound engineering and how much is due to the ensemble. Bottom line -- I like it.

I also found a recording by the Leipzig Qurtet which left no impact on me whatsoever. My Juilliard CD is still missing.
[asin]B0000012YW[/asin]

Sold

[snyprrr]

Trio Fontenay were OK, but you could do better.

My personal favourites are Suk/Katchen/Starker.
Depending on your taste and importance attached to more modern sound, you could also consider the Florestan Trio. Unfortunately no HIP in sight, yet... But of course I strongly encorage you to try Gaia Scienza in the piano quinet.



Q

I got cd1 of that set,...mmm,... I just don't care for Brahms PTs, I think. I feel like they're just these big pieces of lasagna. I did take right quick to Mozart PTs though, and also Schubert,... but not Brahms, or, strangely enough, Mendelssohn,... why is that? Yes, no, I'm not even interested in hearing LvB,... but I did like the Tchaikovsky somewhat,... maybe what I think is that since there are so many capable Composers doing PTs, I really get to just pick those whom I instantaneously are drawn to: how was I to know I'd like Mozart over Mendelssohn (and so forth)?

I'm in a very dismissive phase of my Romantic Period Chamber Music Survey. So far, Mozart has been the big surprise!


I did take immediately to the Brahms Piano Quartets, though (though not the PTs,... can anyone figure out why?). These pieces are like LvB Op.95, and the only pieces I've heard that remind me of it. I was especially surprised by the Invention of Heavy Metal in Op.60, 1st mvmt.

I'm also not fond of Brahms Cello Sonatas and Violin Sonatas

[Herman]

I did take immediately to the Brahms Piano Quartets, though (though not the PTs,... can anyone figure out why?). These pieces are like LvB Op.95, and the only pieces I've heard that remind me of it. I was especially surprised by the Invention of Heavy Metal in Op.60, 1st mvmt.

I'm also not fond of Brahms Cello Sonatas and Violin Sonatas

Brahms's Piano Trios, particularly nr 2 and nr 3, are phenomally good. The sonatas are very good too.

Your problem is you feel you need to have an opinion immediately. This is gets in the way of listening.

[Tyson]

I don't know if this disc has been mentioned, but it definitely should be mentioned. It's easily my favorite recording of these works. They brim with intensity. They're vibrant and fresh. I can't say enough good things about these two performers.

[asin]B004IA25HE[/asin]

You, sir, have excellent taste!

[snyprrr]

Brahms's Piano Trios, particularly nr 2 and nr 3, are phenomally good. The sonatas are very good too.

Your problem is you feel you need to have an opinion immediately. This is gets in the way of listening.

I put on PT Op.8 yesterday, after your post,... and,... it DID put me to sleep. I'm just saying',...

some Brahms = snoozy time music

I haaaave had the Brahms PTs before (Fonentay), and now don't, so, I must have come to a conclusion (for me) about these pieces before. It is out of the bottomless grace of my heart that I took Bruce's/Que's advice and got this cd, to give it another go, and, as I heard it, I remembered that I just had an 'eh' reaction to these PTs. Perhaps, to me, these seem the epitome of that High Romantic snoozy time music that I just can't 'do'.

(shoulder shrugging smilee, the "I don't know what to say" smilee)

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

I put on PT Op.8 yesterday, after your post,... and,... it DID put me to sleep. I'm just saying',...

some Brahms = snoozy time music

I have to agree with Herman here. "Phenomenally good," a judgment which is valid for most of B's chamber music. The 3rd trio (Op. 101), is one of the tightest, most perfectly constructed chamber pieces I know - not a note wasted. The Op. 8 is more expansive and maybe not quite as perfect, but it's a great monument to Weltschmerz: check out the wonderful trio to the scherzo, or the bleak piano and cello themes of the slow mvt. Amazing to think such world-weary music was written by a guy in his early 20s.

Maybe you should stop listening to "things that are crisp and spritely" for a while - it's interfering with your appreciation of Brahms' style.

[snyprrr]

I have to agree with Herman here. "Phenomenally good," a judgment which is valid for most of B's chamber music. The 3rd trio (Op. 101), is one of the tightest, most perfectly constructed chamber pieces I know - not a note wasted. The Op. 8 is more expansive and maybe not quite as perfect, but it's a great monument to Weltschmerz: check out the wonderful trio to the scherzo, or the bleak piano and cello themes of the slow mvt. Amazing to think such world-weary music was written by a guy in his early 20s.

Maybe you should stop listening to "things that are crisp and spritely" for a while - it's interfering with your appreciation of Brahms' style.

haha,...Brahms, the musical equivalent of adding extra cream! How will I keep my figure if I listen to Brahms? What is the general weight of Brahms fans? Now, when I think Brahms, I think ricotta.

Will listen again to Op.8.

[Herman]

haha,...Brahms, the musical equivalent of adding extra cream! How will I keep my figure if I listen to Brahms? What is the general weight of Brahms fans? Now, when I think Brahms, I think ricotta.

In reality Velimir said Brahms wrote some of the "tightest, most perfectly constructed chamber pieces I know  -  not a note wasted."

So your response is a little weird.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

So your response is a little weird.

Accurate translation from Snipperese can be a problem on this board. (In plain English, I don't know what he means.) Personally, I think of Brahms as akin to rich heavy dark beer.

[snyprrr]

Accurate translation from Snipperese can be a problem on this board. (In plain English, I don't know what he means.) Personally, I think of Brahms as akin to rich heavy dark beer.

Translation Complete!! That's what I'm sayin'.

Brahms may not have wasted a note, but it seems to me that his notes are made out of Whole Milk, and not Skim! He just 'sounds' fattening!!

[snyprrr]

btw- I'm really just talking about the first two PTs (and Cello Sonatas) here.

[Mandryka]

Very good recording of the first cello sonata here, which I have listened to quite a few times over the past week or so:

[asin]B00004RJSU[/asin]

Has anyone heard this (Miklos Perenyi and Zoltan Kocsis) :

[snyprrr]

Someone was thinking Op.26 might be Brahms' weak link, but I think I'm liking it more and more. I like the fact that the themes are fairly unassuming, and that the movements are very long, and in the major key, again, fairly unassuming,... yet, each movement does appear to me to fill the timeslot without really seeming too long to me. Perhaps that's The Pettersson Effect??

I also think that it really IS such a blatantly large work. Obviously there must be some comment from the time? But, that it seems such a tranquil work amongst such Dramatic mates, and the Quintet, makes it the big draw for me. I find it very relaxed and genial, like taking the Rolls for a stroll. It reminds me of Schubert?

I'd say it's misunderstood, invisible in plain sight. It seems to have the feel of an automobile for me, a very very luxurious one, driving slowly on a nice day. Objective, not subjective.

I have found myself totally ignoring the other two PQ4ts. This one I just like to have on.


QUESTION: This is what I imagine Taneyev sounding like, though maybe a little thicker. How would you work this angle? Yes, no, different guy,...?? I don't think I've heard a MAJOR KEY work by Taneyev.