Golijov's Gatehouse

[Mirror Image]

How amateurish. You're not supposed to buy; you're supposed to steal.

Yeah, Stravinsky would have been disappointed in Golijov.

[Karl Henning]

 Quote from: CRCulver on February 21, 2012, 04:33:00 AM

A little scandal has erupted because in fulfilling a 35-orchestra commission, Golijov bought a ready-made piece from another composer and presented it as his own. And apparently he's been doing this back to the beginning of his career. See

here and here. 
The Art of the Con.

[knight66]

Very disappointing. It can be spun in various 'ironic' ways; but I won't be buying more of the discs with his name on them any time soon.

Mike

[San Antone]

*** BUMP ***

Listening to Golijov's Siderius

https://www.youtube.com/v/edpddtAM6xY

Golijov's name came up in another thread as a "fake" composer, an unkind remark, and an opinion I don't share.

Some of Golijov's notable works include:

Yiddishbbuk (1992), for string quartet, premiered at Tanglewood.
The Dreams and Prayers of Isaac the Blind (1994), for klezmer clarinet and string quartet (and subsequently for clarinet and string orchestra), inspired by the writings and teachings of Rabbi Yitzhak Saggi Nehor, also known as Isaac the Blind.
Oceana (1996), cantata for chorus and orchestra.
La Pasión según San Marcos (St. Mark's Passion) (2000): premiered in Stuttgart. It has been performed regularly since its premiere.
Three Songs for Soprano and Orchestra (2001). Lúa Descolorida from this set was later repurposed as the 'Peter's Tears' Aria in La Pasión según San Marcos.
Ainadamar (2003): Golijov's first opera, premiered in Tanglewood, with libretto by David Henry Hwang. A 2006 recording for Deutsche Grammophon received Grammy awards for both Best Opera Recording and Best Classical Contemporary Composition.
Ayre (2004): a song cycle for soprano and ensemble, premiered in New York by Dawn Upshaw and The Andalucian Dogs.
Azul (2006), for cello and orchestra, premiered by Yo-Yo Ma at Tanglewood.

I look forward to more new works from this very interesting and talented composer.

[Karl Henning]

"Golijov's" Siderius

FTFY

Tom Manoff, a composer and NPR music critic, wrote in his blog that "at least half of the piece" was known to him as "Barbeich" by Mr. Ward-Bergeman, a work for accordion and ensemble.

[...]

The matter came to light as a result of weird serendipity. Mr. Manoff said he attended a concert by the Eugene Symphony in Oregon with the trumpet player Brian McWhorter to hear a performance of a Haydn trumpet concerto. "Sidereus" happened to be on the program.

And it also happened that Mr. McWhorter had recorded trumpet lines for "Barbeich" and had taken a recording to Mr. Manoff, who has a recording studio, for remixing. Mr. Manoff said he had spent 30 hours with "Barbeich."

"As the phrases unfolded, McWhorter and I would turn to one another with a genuine sense of shock," Mr. Manoff wrote on his blog. "Our spontaneous reactions were also surreal and even funny. After the concert we asked each other, 'Did this really happen?' "

"Sidereus" contains important elements of Mr. Ward-Bergeman's "Barbeich," Mr. Manoff said, including melodies, harmonies, counterpoint, musical structures, textures and form.

That is far more than Mr. Golijov openly described on his publisher's Web site.

[Mirror Image]

He's certainly a joke in a lot of classical circles from what I've read. An unkind remark? Maybe, but there's some truth in it as Karl's linked article so rightfully points out.

[Karl Henning]

"Sidereus," the subject of this fracas, is a nine-minute overture by Mr. Golijov that was commissioned by a consortium of 35 orchestras to honor a music industry official, Henry Fogel. Mr. Fogel is the former president of the League of American Orchestras, whose board put up $50,000 toward the commission. The orchestras put up another $70,000, said Ryan Fleur, president of the Memphis Symphony and coordinator of the commission. Mr. Golijov received $75,000, with the rest of the money going to production costs.

So my question is, whatever sananton' thinks of the "composer's" methods, did the 35 orchestras feel they got what they commissioned?  I have only spoken to a representative of one of the 35 orchestras, and he gave no indication of any future interest in collaborating with Golijov.

[knight66]

I have several of his discs including the opera, which I enjoyed enormously. I was very disappointed to read the accusations of plagerism and it cast a shadow over that enjoyment. I gather that there has been more than one work on which doubts have been cast and understand that the composer's reputation has been pretty much ruined.

Mike

[San Antone]

I have several of his discs including the opera, which I enjoyed enormously. I was very disappointed to read the accusations of plagerism and it cast a shadow over that enjoyment. I gather that there has been more than one work on which doubts have been cast and understand that the composer's reputation has been pretty much ruined.

Mike

It is unfortunate that Golijov's reputation has been hurt by the accusations.  I don't place a whole lot of stock in them.  I continue to enjoy his music, and accept his explanation (as well as that of the other composer) for the confusion about the genesis of at least one work, the main one, that spawned the plagarism issue.

Golijov's is a unique voice.  I do see how his big splash would engender some grumbling in the small pond of classical music.

[Karl Henning]

I have several of his discs including the opera, which I enjoyed enormously. I was very disappointed to read the accusations of plagerism and it cast a shadow over that enjoyment. I gather that there has been more than one work on which doubts have been cast and understand that the composer's reputation has been pretty much ruined.

Mike

And all so pointlessly.  A nine-minute piece, and for $75,000 he couldn't be bothered to do more than four and a half minutes of fresh work.  I wonder if he wrote his own papers at school.

[Mirror Image]

It is unfortunate that Golijov's reputation has been hurt by the accusations.  I don't place a whole lot of stock in them.  I continue to enjoy his music, and accept his explanation (as well as that of the other composer) for the confusion about the genesis of at least one work, the main one, that spawned the plagarism issue.

Golijov's is a unique voice.  I do see how his big splash would engender some grumbling in the small pond of classical music.

What's unfortunate is you merely call them accusations whenever it's been proven time and time again that Golijov is a fraud. But, whatever...not worth arguing about. I think he's a joke and you don't, so nothing's going to change that.

[Karl Henning]

I don't know which is more cynical:  Golijov's methods, or the apologetics which argue that "this is no different from what composers have always done."  Because, obviously, the conductor I know observes a moral distinction.

[Karl Henning]

Quote from: CRCulver on February 21, 2012, 04:33:00 AM

A little scandal has erupted because in fulfilling a 35-orchestra commission, Golijov bought a ready-made piece from another composer and presented it as his own. And apparently he's been doing this back to the beginning of his career. See

here and here. 
The Art of the Con.

Interesting to note that neither of those blog posts (http://www.tommanoff.com/articles/9926/osvaldo-golijovs-siderus-an-attractive-piece-but-did-he-compose-it and http://annalsofthehive.blogspot.com/2012/02/siderius-flap.html) exists anymore.

Coincidence?

[snyprrr]

cast a shadow over that enjoyment

it's a sticky, icky feeling, mmm

I don't know which is more cynical:  Golijov's methods, or the apologetics which argue that "this is no different from what composers have always done."  Because, obviously, the conductor I know observes a moral distinction.

I didn't know about this when I read your other Post. I just thought it was a brilliant observation on YOUR part, lol- sorry, I didn't mean to give you GeniusPostCredit... ahhh... but anyhow,, 'Golijov's Goathouse'...

I mean, yea, I guess, the "paying" vs "stealing" thing,... mm,... almost like, what's the dif?,... but, yea, of course, we ALL get thaaat feeling when we hear certain things about people we're supposed to respect.

I mean, what's the music sound like? Is it so awesome that arguments don't matter?

I've only heard the 'Isaac' clarinet quintet (w/Kronos), and found nothing out of the ordinary in the Nonesuch stable of "ContemporaryClassical" (LOL), all the , excuse me,

CRAP IT WAS, CRAP IT WILL BE (sorry, Mike Myers moment, made myself laugh, not meant as anything...)

[San Antone]

.......Never heard of him

That's too bad since he is a very interesting composer, in my estimation.  He was commissioned to have an opera at the Met in 2017-2018 but I just read where he has pulled out of that commitment.  Since his mistreatment in the press, my view, he has devoted more time to teaching and film scores.  Sections of the opera have been performed here and there, and I hope to see a new work come out based on the music for that aborted project.

The best work, I think, for someone to get an idea of what he is about would be Ainadamar.

[Monsieur Croche]

.......Never heard of him

I just checked several links on Youtube, couldn't tolerate more than ca. four minutes in to any of them.  Film music shtick / schlock aesthetic, in the negative sense, and no more 'interesting than say, Karl Jenkins, who is another very popular composer whom many others feel is as much a sort of 'bad joke.'

But don't let that keep you from checking it out.  I mean, I know I'll not bother to open another link with his music on it, i.e. no matter what the musical cloth, it is the same guy inside.

Others, clearly love this stuff.

Chacun a....

[Mirror Image]

Well I haven't heard of every composer have I?  I'll have to check him out

Don't bother. He's one of the greatest running jokes in classical circles. The guy can't meet a deadline to save his life. The lessons of Golijov's story? Don't except a commission that you can't honor and write your own music instead of someone else's.

[San Antone]

*** Bump ***

I have moved Osvaldo Golijov onto my Top Ten Composers list and am spending today revisiting his music. 

I know he is working and writing new music, e.g."Falling Out of Time," was premiered in 2019.  "Falling Out of Time" is an evening-long song cycle for the Silk Road Ensemble, based on the book Falling Out of Time by David Grossman.  I look forward to a recording of this work. He is also the Loyola Professor of Music at the College of the Holy Cross, so his time is taken up with his teaching responsibilities which may explain the lack of more new works/recordings.

My normal procedure is to create a playlist of a composer's works and listen to them randomly just to get the flavor of his sound world in my ears before listening to them individually.  I have yet to hear a work of his that I do not enjoy, and some I really like a lot.

Ainadamar, Dreams and Prayers of Isaac the Blind, and Ayre are the ones that I know the best and like the most.  His St. Mark Passion, Yiddishbbuk and Azul are the ones I will spending more time with since I don't know them as well, but have listened to them more than once and like them.

It a bit interesting to me that two composers I like a lot are Jewish who wrote Catholic liturgical works: Bernstein's Mass and Golijov's Passion.  In each case the blending of genres is a hallmark of their styles and what attracts me to their music.  I know he has been a lightning rod and a certain amount of controversy surrounds him (it seems to have died down by now), but I block out that noise and enjoy his music and think very highly of his work.