Morton Feldman (1926-1987)

Started by bhodges, March 12, 2008, 10:57:40 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

Mandryka

Quote from: Mandryka on October 20, 2017, 01:07:36 PM


Here's another Triadic Memories which I like to hear, by Roger Woodward. It's quite anxious and agitated sounding at times I think, which is a bit unexpected maybe. But there are plenty of  "spiritual", "transcendent" moments, or whatever the word is, moments where glittering music in higher registers has an effect on me a bit like a trill in a late Beethoven piano sonata. Time stands still etc., and the music seems to push to some limit of music.

It is extraordinary what he does with the music here, I wonder how interventionist he is, whether he worked with Feldman etc. I recommend this Triadic Memories enthusiastically.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

#501
Quote from: milk on August 24, 2017, 03:56:06 PM

I find this very satisfying. I hesitate to buy another, especially one with a faster tempo.

Liebner also takes a long time to get through For Bunita Marcus, but to mind she finds an engaging emotional content in the music which eludes the others that I've heard. Engaging despite the extreme static quality she brings to it.  I never thought I'd say it, but these late Feldman pieces work well when played slowly!

She takes about 87 minutes; the closest I can find is Tilbury, who takes about 77 minutes - quite a difference. Liebner's touch, her gentle attack, is so different from Tilbury's, and it seems really central to her conception of the music.

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mirror Image

I like Feldman's shorter works like Rothko Chapel, Bass Clarinet and Percussion, and Cello and Orchestra, for example, but find his longer pieces to be the equivalent of Chinese water torture.

Richard Pinnell

#503
Quote from: Mandryka on October 21, 2017, 12:16:02 PMShe takes about 87 minutes; the closest I can find is Tilbury, who takes about 77 minutes - quite a difference. Liebner's touch, her gentle attack, is so different from Tilbury's, and it seems really central to her conception of the music.

I have a recording of Tilbury performing FBM in 2007 that clocks in at 86 minutes. I do like the Liebner, its a pleasant listen, but for me Tilbury (who knew Feldman) gets closer to the source of the music.

The greatness of these long late pieces to me lies in the sense of uneven rhythm you feel in them. They are obviously restful, relaxing to some degree, but there are very few precise patterns in there as Feldman was mostly inspired by his love of old handmade Turkish carpets, which, whilst patterned, were never quite fully even, with flaws and alterations to the pattern throughout. They are completely scored, with no chance elements (unlike some of his earlier work) and yet their uneven finish give the impression of a degree of improvisation / flexibility. The sense of edge and uncertainty that this brings rises the pieces above mere mood music for me.
Every word is like an unnecessary stain on silence and nothingness

Richard Pinnell

Quote from: Mirror Image on October 22, 2017, 06:47:13 AM
I like Feldman's shorter works like Rothko Chapel, Bass Clarinet and Percussion, and Cello and Orchestra, for example, but find his longer pieces to be the equivalent of Chinese water torture.

I suspect I'd love Chinese water torture ;)
Every word is like an unnecessary stain on silence and nothingness

bhodges

Reading all the Triadic Memories comments with great interest. I have just one recording (so far), by Marilyn Nonken, which I got after hearing her do the piece live. She is currently chair of the piano performance department at New York University.

I like it very much, but don't know how it compares to these other interesting recordings.

[asin]B00023P46U[/asin]

--Bruce

Mandryka

#506
Quote from: Richard Pinnell on October 22, 2017, 06:54:01 AM

The greatness of these long late pieces to me lies in the sense of uneven rhythm you feel in them. They are obviously restful, relaxing to some degree, but there are very few precise patterns in there as Feldman was mostly inspired by his love of old handmade Turkish carpets, which, whilst patterned, were never quite fully even, with flaws and alterations to the pattern throughout. They are completely scored, with no chance elements (unlike some of his earlier work) and yet their uneven finish give the impression of a degree of improvisation / flexibility. The sense of edge and uncertainty that this brings rises the pieces above mere mood music for me.

This absolutely how I feel too. And it's an aspect of the music which is not revealed by Liebner so clearly. That's why I'd be curious about anything she's written on Feldman.

I like Liebner's way of making a small, non violent sound come out of the piano. If you know about early music, she does for 20th century piano what Rebecca Stewart does for 15th century voice. (Sorry if that's too pretentiously stupid!)

Quote from: Richard Pinnell on October 22, 2017, 06:54:01 AM
I have a recording of Tilbury performing FBM in 2007 that clocks in at 86 minutes.

If the sound is good you're lucky to have it.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

San Antone

Quote from: Brewski on October 22, 2017, 07:19:08 AM
Reading all the Triadic Memories comments with great interest. I have just one recording (so far), by Marilyn Nonken, which I got after hearing her do the piece live. She is currently chair of the piano performance department at New York University.

I like it very much, but don't know how it compares to these other interesting recordings.

[asin]B00023P46U[/asin]

--Bruce

I have that one too, I like it a lot.

Richard Pinnell

Quote from: Mandryka on October 22, 2017, 07:27:11 AMI like Liebner's way of making a small, non violent sound come out of the piano. If you know about early music, she does for 20th century piano what Rebecca Stewart does for 15th century voice. (Sorry if that's too pretentiously stupid!)

I know nothing about 15th Century voice I am afraid, but your comment doesn't sound pretentious to me. We hear what we hear and make the links that sound natural to us. I'll try and hear Stewart sometime.

The Markus Hinterhauser recordings of late Feldman piano on Col Legno are worth a listen too,- less "pretty" than the Liebner but still with enough of him as a performer in there to keep them from robotic renditions.
Every word is like an unnecessary stain on silence and nothingness

millionrainbows

#509
What I recognize in Feldman is his music is composed for the listening process, which is totally a real thing involving our 'being' and experience. In that regard, it is 'just sound'.

What I mean is this: you hear a note, and automatically you hear that note as the center (or 'tonic'), because that's what we naturally do with our ears. Then, another note appears, which may reinforce that first notion, or erode it. Then other notes appear, which may reinforce the previous expectation, or change it. Each note, therefore, has a "being" or meaning to us, and this changes, and gets continually destroyed or re-created.

This has everything to do with cognition of sound, and how sounds and events are at first present, and then become memories (hence the title "Triadic Memories").

Isn't this a metaphor for being, and for life?

milk

Quote from: millionrainbows on October 25, 2017, 11:04:38 AM
What I recognize in Feldman is his music is composed for the listening process, which is totally a real thing involving our 'being' and experience. In that regard, it is 'just sound'.

What I mean is this: you hear a note, and automatically you hear that note as the center (or 'tonic'), because that's what we naturally do with our ears. Then, another note appears, which may reinforce that first notion, or erode it. Then other notes appear, which may reinforce the previous expectation, or change it. Each note, therefore, has a "being" or meaning to us, and this changes, and gets continually destroyed or re-created.

This has everything to do with cognition of sound, and how sounds and events are at first present, and then become memories (hence the title "Triadic Memories").

Isn't this a metaphor for being, and for life?
wonderful thought

mjwal

Quote from: milk on October 25, 2017, 03:10:22 PM
wonderful thought

It is a stimulating thought and very well expressed - I would myself suggest the analogy of swimming, where you're experiencing what is perhaps at first a series of unobtrusive but delicately repetitive waves, enjoying the relaxing feeling, then a bigger one comes along and changes the degree of impact, maybe also feeling colder/more bracing, there is a swirl or two...etc...But of course, Feldman swims are more in very long lakes.
To get down to recordings of Triadic Memories, which seems to be a favourite, I have very much enjoyed Fafchamps' and Takahashi's versions, which left me feeling quite different - how, I couldn't say.I think the former transported me to a greater extent.
The Violin's Obstinacy

It needs to return to this one note,
not a tune and not a key
but the sound of self it must depart from,
a journey lengthily to go
in a vein it knows will cripple it.
...
Peter Porter

millionrainbows

Thanks for your gracious replies, milk and mjwal.

Feldman seems made for the Western listener, unlike some Cage. He plays on our expectations, and our longer-term perception of sound, which has a lot to do with memory. His music is using this narrative process we are all accustomed to, while at the same time he is subverting it, taking away, bringing us back to another beginning note. So while there may be superficial similarities to Cage's random unfolding, Feldman is never truly random. I suppose the indeterminate and graphic music is as close as he got to doing that, but when he wrote down notes, this is where his intentions are apparent.

San Antone

My most recent Feldman ah-hah moment came when I listened to Neither.  A great work - really wonderful.

Written in 1977 at a point when his longest work had been around 30 mins., Neither is almost an hour .  Neither therefore seems like a fulcrum between his early generally shorter works and the late period works that gradually become longer, some reaching 4, 5 hours.


Alek Hidell

Feldman's music fascinates me and I'd dearly love to see a box set of it - if not the entire corpus of his work (some of which, of course, has never been recorded), at least the "greatest hits."

(I wonder how many CDs it would take to encompass his entire oeuvre? - quite a few, given the length of his later works, but perhaps doable?)

Incidentally, for those who don't mind downloads, you can get a fair amount of his music pretty cheaply on Google Play (often much cheaper than on Amazon or iTunes).
"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist." - Hélder Pessoa Câmara

milk


I'm so glad I got this today. Now, this is Feldman's world! Paul Zukofsky is just stunning.
I had been listening to Christina Fong & Paul Hersey and I have to warn people away from that. I would have never known what a special piece of music this really is.

Mandryka

Quote from: milk on December 06, 2017, 08:03:25 PM

I'm so glad I got this today. Now, this is Feldman's world! Paul Zukofsky is just stunning.
I had been listening to Christina Fong & Paul Hersey and I have to warn people away from that. I would have never known what a special piece of music this really is.

Yes both artists, Schroeder and Zukofsky, are exceptionally good, I like very much Zukofsky's distinctive tone. Try his Bach too!
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

milk

Quote from: Mandryka on December 06, 2017, 09:11:25 PM
Yes both artists, Schroeder and Zukofsky, are exceptionally good, I like very much Zukofsky's distinctive tone. Try his Bach too!
I'm definitely curious.

Mandryka

#518
I first came across Marianne Schroeder through an essay on Feldman by Christian Tarting, who's a researcher in improvisation. He singled her out, along with Roger Woodward, Gérard Frémy and Ronnie Lynne Patterson, as a pianist with a bit of a knack for this music. I agree, I've enjoyed exploring Feldman and Cage recordings by all four.

Of course Schroeder led me to Paul Zukofsky . . .

Listening to Paul Zukofsky play For John Cage again, I was impressed by not just the calm, but also by the colours and the variety of attacks. Violin effects, but certainly not reducing the music to an exercise in effects, as if the effects enhance the nobility and the mysteriousness of the music.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

San Antone

Lately, the Feldman recordings I am liking are those by Eberhard Blum on Hat Hut Records.