Morton Feldman (1926-1987)

Started by bhodges, March 12, 2008, 10:57:40 AM

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vers la flamme

Quote from: Artem on March 05, 2020, 12:50:17 PM
I think you may like "The Viola in My Life" disk on ECM. The pieces are from 1970-1971.

As for the question above on Another Timbre, I found that specific disk lacking in terms of players' emotional approach to music. It felt like very well rehearsed playing, but so distant and separated from the music that they play. It feels odd to me.

Thanks, I'll check it out.

And to clarify, do you think that this distance is unidiomatic to the music, ie. that it should be approached emotionally?

Mandryka

#581
Here are Feldman's own comments on three pianists who played Triadic Memories, it's in Goodbye to Eighth Street.  it's evident he likes all three. I've put passages in bold which seem to me to reveal his openness to something which may be called expressiveness.

QuoteDavid Tudor: amazing reflexes,
focused on just one mosaic at a time,
a nondirectional approach of equal
intensity and clarity, regardless of what
was being played, an accumulative
effect of time being frozen.


Roger Woodward: more traditional,
which also means more unpredictable in
how he shapes and paces. I would call it
a prose style. Where Tudor focused on
a moment, Woodward would find the
quintessential touch of the work, hold
on to it and then as in one giant breath,
articulate the music's overall scale.
Like
Tudor, Woodward played everything as
primary material. He is a long-distance runner. Tudor jumps high over the bar.
Where Tudor isolates the moment, by
not being influenced by what we might
consider a composition's cause and
effect, and Woodward finds the right
tone that savours the moment and
extends it.


Aki Takahashi is very different.
Takahashi appears to be absolutely still.
Undisturbed, unperturbed, as if in a
concentrated prayer.
Kafka writes about
approaching his work as if in a state of
prayer....The effect of her playing to me
is that I feel privileged to be invited to a
very religious ritual

Re the Another Timbre Feldman, I have the two piano music, the PVVC and the solo piano music. I'm not in a position to make any comments on the nature of the performances, but I will say that the booklet to the solo music is excellent and is here

https://www.philip-thomas.co.uk/morton-feldman-piano/
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

vers la flamme

I'm eagerly awaiting the Two Pianos disc. That 5CD of solo piano music looks excellent too.

T. D.

#583
I've got to order the Two Pianos disc. I already have good recordings of practically all the music on the (no doubt excellent) 5 CD solo piano set, so will pass on that.

vers la flamme

Quote from: T. D. on March 07, 2020, 08:05:11 AM
I've got to order the Two Pianos disc. I already have good recordings of practically all the music on the (no doubt excellent) 5 CD solo piano set, so will pass on that.

I was really taken by the excerpts of it that Another Timbre has on their youtube page. I had to order it, even if it is a little more expensive than my budget usually allows. (I think with the exchange rate it worked out to about 25 USD shipped, still not too bad for a 2CD).

T. D.

Thanks. Surprised to find that it's cheapest to order direct from Another Timbre. I added the back catalog "discounted" (GBP 5) John Cage Four^4 to give the illusion of a lower price per disc  ;).

Mandryka

https://www.youtube.com/v/4vlfZIza3dU
This is Ixion, from the late 50s early 60s, played by David Tudor. John Tilbury makes these comments on Tudor

Quote from: John Tilbury here https://www.cnvill.net/mftilb.htmAnd herein lies the world of difference between Feldman and, in particular, his European peers; because through the infamous softness and slowness of his music and a radical commitment to the muscular, physical and essentially sensual qualities of the art of performance Feldman thwarts the attempts at expressive reduction and control which our conservatory training operates.

When David Tudor or Cardew played Feldman what you heard and experienced with great intensity was the limb as it performed, the fingerpad - that most erotic part of a pianist's body - and the resulting sound was raw and thrilling. In too many performances one is all too conscious of a culture intervening between body and instrument.

Tudor and Cardew were virtuosi, which has nothing to do with velocity or petty digital scramble (Barthes), by virtue of the extraordinary sounds they drew from the piano. Their performances steered a hazardous course generating risk and excitement: the phrasing and articulation 'situational', determined spontaneously by the idiosyncrasies of individual sounds at particular moments, by ambience and acoustics, by the imperfections in the instrument and the dimensions of the room. And this is Feldman's way.

Quote from: John Tilbury in his biography of CardewAnd herein lies the world of difference between Morton Feldman, in particular, anc his European peers; because through the infamous softness and slowness of his music and a radical commitment to the muscular, physical and essentially sensual qualit of the art of performance Feldman refines an aesthetic of musical pleasure which negates the attempts at expressive reduction and control our conservatory training operates. When David Tudor, or Cardew, played Feldman what the listener experienced, with suct, intensity, was the fingerpad, `the only erotic part of a pianist's body' 25 - the limb as t performed - and the resulting sound was raw and thrilling, of a quality which defied Institution, Criticism and Opinion. With too many performers one is all too conscious of a 'polite culture' intervening between body and instrument. Feldman once remarked how so many professionals seemed frightened of thee instrument, somehow alienated from it. In stark contrast, with Tudor and Cardew one sensed an at-oneness, an ability to bridge the gap between player and instrument

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

#587
In Four Instruments (1965) the players choose the duration of the sounds they make.


I can find three recordings - Another Timbre, Wergo and Mode. The Mode one with the Barton Workshop is considerably slower than the other two.

Another Timbre 11,58
Wergo 12,20
Mode 20,40

And as with Cage's Two2, the expansive tempo makes for an interesting experience. I've heard all three and Barton Workshop has caught my imagination. It feels eternal, out of time.





Another Timbre has a tense quality. There's something that Tilbury says about Feldman - that his idea is to create space rather than fill space. But Tilbury's own recording seems to me the least successful in this respect. The impression is of music being urgently forced into a preexisting space. I don't like it.

Despite a tempo similar to Another Tombre, The Wego CD, from Ensemble Avantgarde, is rather more successful I think, and I intend to give it more attention  it includes an extraordinary piece called For Franz Kline which is like nothing I've ever heard before.

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mirror Image

#588
Quote from: Mandryka on March 08, 2020, 10:52:20 PMThe Wergo CD, from Ensemble Avantgarde, is rather more successful I think, and I intend to give it more attention  it includes an extraordinary piece called For Franz Kline which is like nothing I've ever heard before.



For Franz Kline is one of my favorite pieces from Feldman. It can also be found on this fantastic recording on the New Albion label:



I really need to get back into Feldman as I have so many new recordings that have arrived last week (and earlier) that are still in their shrinkwrap.

vers la flamme

^I like what I'm hearing. Just ordered a copy for 8 bones. Any time I can get a Feldman CD under $10 I count it as a victory. :D

Mirror Image

Quote from: vers la flamme on March 09, 2020, 07:42:30 AM
^I like what I'm hearing. Just ordered a copy for 8 bones. Any time I can get a Feldman CD under $10 I count it as a victory. :D

Nice! A good deal, indeed. 8)

T. D.

Quote from: Mirror Image on March 09, 2020, 06:11:51 AM
For Franz Kline is one of my favorite pieces from Feldman. It can also be found on this fantastic recording on the New Albion label:



...
Yes! I recently listened to that (among a few other Feldman recordings I hadn't revisited in years) and was highly impressed. Have been on a Feldman/Cage binge of sorts lately.

BTW, I recently noticed that Marc-Andre Hamelin has released some Feldman recordings. This was a surprise, as I associate MAH with pyrotechnical finger-breaking repertory. Has anyone heard any? They somehow don't appeal to me, but I could be mistaken.

Mirror Image

Quote from: T. D. on March 09, 2020, 05:47:16 PM
Yes! I recently listened to that (among a few other Feldman recordings I hadn't revisited in years) and was highly impressed. Have been on a Feldman/Cage binge of sorts lately.

BTW, I recently noticed that Marc-Andre Hamelin has released some Feldman recordings. This was a surprise, as I associate MAH with pyrotechnical finger-breaking repertory. Has anyone heard any? They somehow don't appeal to me, but I could be mistaken.

I'm not a huge Hamelin fan, so I don't know the merits of his Feldman. He seems to be the wrong man for the job, but I'm simply judging it by face value. I could be wrong (won't be the first nor the last time I'm sure). I seem to have exited my Feldman phase (it never lasts long unlike his later works --- no pun intended ;)). :)

T. D.

Quote from: Mirror Image on March 09, 2020, 05:54:41 PM
I'm not a huge Hamelin fan, so I don't know the merits of his Feldman. He seems to be the wrong man for the job, but I'm simply judging it by face value. I could be wrong (won't be the first nor the last time I'm sure). ...

My thoughts exactly (emphasis added), disclaimer included. On further review, looks like For Bunita Marcus is Hamelin's only Feldman release so far.
Perhaps my recent binge is to make up for the nearby For Philip Guston event I unconscionably failed to attend last year.  :(

Mandryka

#594
I've been listening to Nature Pieces (1951) a set of five short piano pieces which may have been written for dance. It's an early work, but it has a distinctive voice with betrays a bold imagination for rhythms and expressive gestures.  I can find three recordings of the set

          

Mauser by the way takes three times longer than he "should" in the first one. Yet as far as I know the music is determinate.

I'm very impressed by Phiipp Vandre's phrasing. I shall be exploring this pianist some more.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

vers la flamme

I listened to the whole of this:



... which came to me today, just one day after purchase (gotta love Amazon prime sometimes.) OK, this is absolutely phenomenal all around. The music is oblique and experimental but quite accessible (I think it's the relatively short durations). Something about the angular sharpness to these simple melodies and harmonies really calls to me. Beautiful use of the voice. My favorite on the disc is definitely For Franz Kline, and I would call Pianos and Voices the most challenging; it seems to presage his later work. For the most part these works are '60s and '70s which is proving to be my favorite era of Feldman's music. Wow, he was incredibly prolific and wrote in many styles, all unmistakably Feldmanesque. Was he one of the major voices of the latter half of the 20th century, or what? Definitely one of the most important American composers to ever have lived.

Final comment on the disc, is it just me or is it mixed really loud? I'm not complaining, I often feel that classical CDs are mixed too quietly. Both New Albion Feldman discs are damn good! I want to hear more from this label.

@Mandryka. I will seek out the Nature Pieces, your description has engaged my interest. That Siegfried Mauser Kairos disc sounds fascinating.

Mandryka

Quote from: vers la flamme on March 10, 2020, 03:07:59 PM
I listened to the whole of
Final comment on the disc, is it just me or is it mixed really loud? I'm not complaining, I often feel that classical CDs are mixed too quietly. Both New Albion Feldman discs are damn good! I want to hear more from this label.


Yes, it is.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

vers la flamme

Quote from: Mandryka on March 08, 2020, 10:52:20 PM
In Four Instruments (1965) the players choose the duration of the sounds they make.


I can find three recordings - Another Timbre, Wergo and Mode. The Mode one with the Barton Workshop is considerably slower than the other two.

Another Timbre 11,58
Wergo 12,20
Mode 20,40

And as with Cage's Two2, the expansive tempo makes for an interesting experience. I've heard all three and Barton Workshop has caught my imagination. It feels eternal, out of time.





Another Timbre has a tense quality. There's something that Tilbury says about Feldman - that his idea is to create space rather than fill space. But Tilbury's own recording seems to me the least successful in this respect. The impression is of music being urgently forced into a preexisting space. I don't like it.

Despite a tempo similar to Another Tombre, The Wego CD, from Ensemble Avantgarde, is rather more successful I think, and I intend to give it more attention  it includes an extraordinary piece called For Franz Kline which is like nothing I've ever heard before.



I notice that For Franz Kline on this Wergo CD is half the duration of the one on the New Albion. Is it an unfinished version that appears on the Wergo, maybe? Or do they just take it much faster?

T. D.

Quote from: vers la flamme on March 11, 2020, 02:03:09 AM
I notice that For Franz Kline on this Wergo CD is half the duration of the one on the New Albion. Is it an unfinished version that appears on the Wergo, maybe? Or do they just take it much faster?

The New Albion liner notes state:
By indicating that players proceed at their own pace through this [FFK] score, Feldman ensured that each performance would be a unique experience with its own surprising simultaneities.

So perhaps there's a lot of performer discretion? You can see the score (which is only 4 pages!) at https://issuu.com/editionpeters/docs/fm22. I don't read music, but don't see any metronome markings.

Re. earlier post: Yes, recording volume is high for a Feldman CD. I've found (admittedly non-exhaustive sampling) that American labels New Albion and Bridge record Feldman at higher output levels and with a brighter acoustic than Euro labels like hatArt and Etcetera. I rather like the higher volume (less cause to adjust playback equipment), but generally prefer the drier Euro sound. No issues with the New Albion release mentioned, though.

vers la flamme

Quote from: T. D. on March 11, 2020, 09:13:48 AM
The New Albion liner notes state:
By indicating that players proceed at their own pace through this [FFK] score, Feldman ensured that each performance would be a unique experience with its own surprising simultaneities.

So perhaps there's a lot of performer discretion? You can see the score (which is only 4 pages!) at https://issuu.com/editionpeters/docs/fm22. I don't read music, but don't see any metronome markings.

Re. earlier post: Yes, recording volume is high for a Feldman CD. I've found (admittedly non-exhaustive sampling) that American labels New Albion and Bridge record Feldman at higher output levels and with a brighter acoustic than Euro labels like hatArt and Etcetera. I rather like the higher volume (less cause to adjust playback equipment), but generally prefer the drier Euro sound. No issues with the New Albion release mentioned, though.

I really love the sonics on the two New Albion Feldman discs I have, as well as the Bridge disc I have with Crippled Symmetry. The Rothko Chapel is mixed significantly quieter than the other one. It is close to the ideal for me in this music. I have a disc coming in the mail to me, another American recording, the première recording of Rothko Chapel, and I'm excited to hear how it differs from the NA. But I'd better check out some of the Euro recordings to see what I think. They sure are numerous.