Morton Feldman (1926-1987)

Started by bhodges, March 12, 2008, 10:57:40 AM

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T. D.

I recall the Bridge For Philip Guston as having a brighter sound than I preferred, though very well-recorded. But I sold the set because the playing time was just too long, so didn't listen all that often. OTOH, some Euro releases can have extremely "dry" (not sure how else to put it) sound.
I also had a problem with Three Voices on New Albion. There was a persistent clicking sound that I couldn't handle. Didn't replace it, so don't know whether I got a defective copy. But pretty much everything else I bought on New Albion (long defunct  :( ) had outstanding sonics.

vers la flamme

#601
Quote from: T. D. on March 11, 2020, 09:36:53 AM
I recall the Bridge For Philip Guston as having a brighter sound than I preferred, though very well-recorded. But I sold the set because the playing time was just too long, so didn't listen all that often. OTOH, some Euro releases can have extremely "dry" (not sure how else to put it) sound.
I also had a problem with Three Voices on New Albion. There was a persistent clicking sound that I couldn't handle. Didn't replace it, so don't know whether I got a defective copy. But pretty much everything else I bought on New Albion (long defunct  :( ) had outstanding sonics.

I've been looking at that Three Voices, if I get it, I'll let you know about the clicking. But yes, I love all the New Albion stuff that I have and definitely intend to seek out more, beyond Feldman.

I didn't think I would make it, but I've listened to just about all of Crippled Symmetry. I'm on track 6 of 6 with five minutes to go. The music is an incredibly intricate and sprawling tapestry, and listening to it was (though the composer would likely have vehemently disagreed with me on this) something of a journey.

I have this recording:



I wouldn't change a thing about it. I have seen others express their critiques for this disc but I loved how it sounds, and I love the playing of the ensemble.

Has anyone else listened to Crippled Symmetry in its entirety in the past few months? Curious about other thoughts. I've just learned that Feldman has written an even longer piece for the same ensemble, For Philip Guston at about four hours long, and that's going to be a hard pass from me, at least at this point in my life. Does anyone know about the relationship between Why Patterns?, Crippled Symmetry, and For Philip Guston, all for the same ensemble of flute, keyboard, and pitched percussion? Are these works all related in some way, or are they all completely different beasts?

edit: I love how it ended with minutes of a single repeated note on the glockenspiel. It feels like this is the point into which all the music was coming together.

petrarch

This might shed some light:

Forgetting Music: Duration, Space, and Remembrance in the Late Music of Morton Feldman

There are a number of other articles and analyses of his late pieces, and I managed to collect quite a few over the years.

My preferences for Feldman recordings is HatHut/HatArt. Sonics and musicians are stellar. Next to those, the series on Mode is a must-have. For Philip Guston was my first foray into Feldman and I absolutely loved it.

//p
The music collection.
The hi-fi system: Esoteric X-03SE -> Pathos Logos -> Analysis Audio Amphitryon.
A view of the whole

Mandryka

Quote from: petrarch on March 14, 2020, 06:38:38 AM
This might shed some light:

Forgetting Music: Duration, Space, and Remembrance in the Late Music of Morton Feldman


or maybe not

Quote from: Forgetting Music: Duration, Space, and Remembrance in the Late Music of Morton Feldman p.50

A problem arises when Feldman begins to write longer music. We are unable to keep our attention focused on the music
for that long and will inevitably lose focus and think of something else. The duration of
the music detracts from our experiencing each aural phenomenon. Feldman's shorter
pieces were more in the range of time where a listener could remain focused the entire
time. Now that I have introduced this problem a solution seems to be necessary. I do
not, however, have a solution to this problem. I will bring up more problems with
Feldman's music in the following chapter and they too will remain unresolved.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

Quote from: vers la flamme on March 14, 2020, 05:15:44 AM


edit: I love how it ended with minutes of a single repeated note on the glockenspiel. It feels like this is the point into which all the music was coming together.


Very good -- the most interesting thing anyone has ever said to me about Feldman's long form music

So do you think there is an end, that the structure is basically this?

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

San Antone

QuoteQuote from: Forgetting Music: Duration, Space, and Remembrance in the Late Music of Morton Feldman p.50

     A problem arises when Feldman begins to write longer music. We are unable to keep our attention focused on the music
    for that long and will inevitably lose focus and think of something else. The duration of
    the music detracts from our experiencing each aural phenomenon. Feldman's shorter
    pieces were more in the range of time where a listener could remain focused the entire
    time. Now that I have introduced this problem a solution seems to be necessary. I do
    not, however, have a solution to this problem. I will bring up more problems with
    Feldman's music in the following chapter and they too will remain unresolved.

This guy is not very bright, IMO.   ::)

vers la flamme

#606
Quote from: Mandryka on March 14, 2020, 09:49:17 AMVery good -- the most interesting thing anyone has ever said to me about Feldman's long form music

So do you think there is an end, that the structure is basically this?



Maybe, with a lower frequency and/or amplitude, or with some variance in both of those values. The music is not completely symmetrical, it is "crippled", whatever that means.


vers la flamme

Quote from: San Antone on March 14, 2020, 11:06:24 AM
This guy is not very bright, IMO.   ::)

Hey, he's an undergrad music and philosophy major, give the poor kid a break.  :laugh:

petrarch

Quote from: Mandryka on March 14, 2020, 09:44:54 AM
or maybe not

Seriously, not even some, even with all the references?  ::)
//p
The music collection.
The hi-fi system: Esoteric X-03SE -> Pathos Logos -> Analysis Audio Amphitryon.
A view of the whole

Mandryka

#609


Listening to most of this this morning - with Knoop etc on Another Timbre, I was struck by the contrast between strings and piano in the first third, it's as if the music for strings is attempting to stop the piano breaking free, to pull the piano down. Such tense music! Restless in the sense of no resolution, never relaxed. The sound take is very close, you're in the front row, and that seems to augment the feeling of being trapped. 
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

vers la flamme

Quote from: Mandryka on March 31, 2020, 01:01:21 AM


Listening to most of this this morning - with Knoop etc on Another Timbre, I was struck by the contrast between strings and piano in the first third, it's as if the music for strings is attempting to stop the piano breaking free, to pull the piano down. Such tense music! Restless in the sense of no resolution, never relaxed. The sound take is very close, you're in the front row, and that seems to augment the feeling of being trapped.

Interesting. I ought to check it out. I've been listening to the other Another Timbre Feldman set, the Two Pianos music etc., which is earlier Feldman, '50s and '60s. Very great music making, I've been loving it all. I have the Hat-Now-Art version of PVVC but I have yet to listen to it. Late Feldman is still scary to me.

Rinaldo

Quote from: Mandryka on February 25, 2020, 08:53:29 AMHas anyone here ever had an interesting altered state of mind while listening to a piece of music by Feldman? A halucination maybe? A little vision of the eternity?

Yes, while listening to Coptic Light. I don't have synesthesia but I vividly recall weird intricate patterns and light tapestries materializing in my head, in a similar way images flash through your brain before falling asleep (and I wasn't sleepy at all, nor under the influence of any kind of drug – the only ones I do is caffeine & alcohol).

The feeling of time stopping that others have described is familiar to me as well: I've experienced it during a live performance of For John Cage. Time was constantly slowing down until.. it wasn't there at all.

vers la flamme

I wonder, are there any other Feldman works that are anything like The King of Denmark? That piece is really something special.

Mandryka

Quote from: vers la flamme on March 31, 2020, 11:39:24 AM
I wonder, are there any other Feldman works that are anything like The King of Denmark? That piece is really something special.

Maybe Piano Piece For Philip Guston (not to be confused for the piece for little ensemble called For Philip Guston) But it's not as good because it's just a piano.

I've just discovered a nice thing, For Bass Clarinet and Percussion. Heavy, dark Feldman.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

vers la flamme

Quote from: Mandryka on April 01, 2020, 12:48:18 AM
Maybe Piano Piece For Philip Guston (not to be confused for the piece for little ensemble called For Philip Guston) But it's not as good because it's just a piano.

I've just discovered a nice thing, For Bass Clarinet and Percussion. Heavy, dark Feldman.

OK, I'll check it out, it's frequently on volumes of Feldman's solo piano works, which is an area I'd like to explore in further depth. If I had the money I might get Philip Thomas' complete set.

vers la flamme

Cross-post from New Releases

Quote from: vers la flamme on April 08, 2020, 04:48:23 AM


This came out the other day. Has anyone heard it?

Mandryka

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

Quote from: vers la flamme on April 08, 2020, 04:49:36 AM
Cross-post from New Releases




Quote from: Mandryka on April 08, 2020, 09:53:46 AM
No, I haven't. I nearly did, they gave a concert with it in London last year, and I wanted to go but didn't make it.

I know the violinist from his recording (rather good) of music by Finnissy; and the pianist has already recorded For John Cage with an unnamed member of The Smith Quartet. In fact I never listen to it, if I want to hear this music I tend to prefer the extraordinary tone of Paul Zukofsky with Marianne Schroeder. I can imagine that Darragh Morgan's sound (tense) will suit John Tilbury's style (tense.)

And guess who that unnamed member of The Smith Quartet was.

QuoteDarragh Morgan
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

vers la flamme

Quote from: Mandryka on April 20, 2020, 07:26:51 AM
And guess who that unnamed member of The Smith Quartet was.

Wow. So this is a re-recording with the same violinist? Or is it merely a reissue?

Mandryka

#619
Quote from: vers la flamme on April 20, 2020, 07:44:02 AM
Wow. So this is a re-recording with the same violinist? Or is it merely a reissue?

Dunno. Maybe I'll ask John Tilbury.

Quote from: Mandryka on April 08, 2020, 09:53:46 AM
I can imagine that Darragh Morgan's sound (tense) will suit John Tilbury's style (tense.)

This is totally unfair, I shouldn't have said it. I shall buy the new recording as a penance.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen