Morton Feldman (1926-1987)

[vers la flamme]

Good to hear. Simon's been most friendly in my dealings with him. I like to support the label, have ordered a few times and listened to loads of samples, currently on the fence concerning a couple of potential orders. I must say that an awful lot of the AT online samples (by diverse composers) sound more than vaguely reminiscent of Feldman or Cage, though. 

This is true, that's a reason why I haven't really branched out to many of the other composers (along with the fact that I've heard of almost none of them). I understand a lot of it is free improvisatory stuff, too. Kind of its own tradition.

[staxomega]

Yesterday I listened to all of String Quartet 2. This was setup by selecting the Flux Quartet's recording on Youtube and jumping to some helpful time markers that people left in the comments, I certainly enjoyed what I heard at those moments so I decided to listen to it the next day. All of this spurred on by Igor Levit's latest album having a recording of Palais de Mari on it. I respect Levit as a musician and human being even if I'm not usually taken by his interpretations; to have something so far out of the standard repertoire from a major label's darling pianist piqued my interest again. I've listened to Feldman in the past but never really thought too much about it, a sort of balanced impassivity would be the best way to describe my reaction to it.

But it all came together yesterday, it made sense. It was magnificent. I could hear that the piece was clearly "divided", for instance a section that abruptly transitions to the strings playing pizzicato and remaining in that segment for a while, but like looking at a time lapsed glacier it was still part of the whole glacier. The closest thing I can think of musically to this feeling is some of Sorabji's longer pieces.

I think the major thing that radically changed my opinion is no longer listening to this music on headphones, I think having the sound in the room projected forward and backward (depth) creates a startling difference. And may be why people that experience Feldman's music live have written loads about it. I have never experienced this level of appreciation with regard to performance with hifi equipment or headphones or speakers. Usually it's just like "this obviously sounds better than my old equipment, I'm not changing my mind about liking or not liking a certain performance". I've come to appreciate nuances in performances more that better equipment let me hear but again nothing to this extent.

[Old San Antone]

Yesterday I listened to all of String Quartet 2. This was setup by selecting the Flux Quartet's recording on Youtube and jumping to some helpful time markers that people left in the comments, I certainly enjoyed what I heard at those moments so I decided to listen to it the next day. All of this spurred on by Igor Levit's latest album having a recording of Palais de Mari on it. I respect Levit as a musician and human being even if I'm not usually taken by his interpretations; to have something so far out of the standard repertoire from a major label's darling pianist piqued my interest again. I've listened to Feldman in the past but never really thought too much about it, a sort of balanced impassivity would be the best way to describe my reaction to it.

But it all came together yesterday, it made sense. It was magnificent. I could hear that the piece was clearly "divided", for instance a section that abruptly transitions to the strings playing pizzicato and remaining in that segment for a while, but like looking at a time lapsed glacier it was still part of the whole glacier. The closest thing I can think of musically to this feeling is some of Sorabji's longer pieces.

I think the major thing that radically changed my opinion is no longer listening to this music on headphones, I think having the sound in the room projected forward and backward (depth) creates a startling difference. And may be why people that experience Feldman's music live have written loads about it. I have never experienced this level of appreciation with regard to performance with hifi equipment or headphones or speakers. Usually it's just like "this obviously sounds better than my old equipment, I'm not changing my mind about liking or not liking a certain performance". I've come to appreciate nuances in performances more that better equipment let me hear but again nothing to this extent.

It is wonderful when something clicks.  I never listen on headphones partly because of what you describe.

[JBS]

Yesterday I listened to all of String Quartet 2. This was setup by selecting the Flux Quartet's recording on Youtube and jumping to some helpful time markers that people left in the comments, I certainly enjoyed what I heard at those moments so I decided to listen to it the next day. All of this spurred on by Igor Levit's latest album having a recording of Palais de Mari on it. I respect Levit as a musician and human being even if I'm not usually taken by his interpretations; to have something so far out of the standard repertoire from a major label's darling pianist piqued my interest again. I've listened to Feldman in the past but never really thought too much about it, a sort of balanced impassivity would be the best way to describe my reaction to it.

I just got that Levitt CD, and Palais de Mari is probably the most impressive work on it.  (That is is by far the longest individual piece may have something to do with that.)
It's the first Feldman work I have heard (albeit I haven't heard that much by him) that made me want to listen to it again.

[Old San Antone]

I just got that Levitt CD, and Palais de Mari is probably the most impressive work on it.  (That is is by far the longest individual piece may have something to do with that.)
It's the first Feldman work I have heard (albeit I haven't heard that much by him) that made me want to listen to it again.

If I am not mistaken, Levit plays Palais faster than usual.  I was wrong, I was thinking of Alan Feinberg.

[JBS]

If I am not mistaken, Levit plays Palais faster than usual.  I was wrong, I was thinking of Alan Feinberg.

Levit's timing is 28:46.

[Old San Antone]

Levit's timing is 28:46.

Well, then he's on the slow side - but that's okay with Feldman.  I'd rather have a performer take Feldman slowly than rushed.

[Mandryka]

The Palais de Mari here lasts 39 minutes

[Old San Antone]

The Palais de Mari here lasts 39 minutes

That's ten minutes longer than any I've seen before.  But I'm listening to it now and (while I've only been with it a few minutes) it seems all right.  as I said, Feldman can survive, even thrive if taken, "too slow" but too fast destroys his music, IMO.  It might bog down.

[Mandryka]

Tilbury does it in 24 minutes!

[Old San Antone]

Tilbury does it in 24 minutes!

Alan Feinberg 21:51
Aleck Karis 22:01
Andreas Mühlen 22:02
Steffan Schleiermacher 22:49
Daniel N. Deal 23:29

Those are just the ones on Spotify.  A saw a description of the work saying duration of between 20-25 minutes.  But there are a number that are longer, and I prefer a slower pace.  But 39+ minutes might be too much.  I turned it off - but will go back to her performance and try to stay with it.

Sabine Liebner's recording is about right, IMO.

https://www.youtube.com/v/BaOXPkMnnGE

[vers la flamme]

The only Palais de Mari I've heard is Karis on Bridge. Appears it's one of the faster ones, then. Tempo isn't particularly important to me in Feldman. If it's good, it's good. That being said I'm not sure how I feel about the Karis. It's on his CD which also features works by Wolpe and Webern, being Feldman's teacher and grand-teacher respectively. His playing seems to have a bit of a clinical feel.

[T. D.]

Only recording I own is Marianne Schroeder at 24:42. I find her a reliable performer, based on other works of which I've heard multiple recordings.
I often chuckle about Feldman's commentary on a performance of his String Quartet: "IT'S TOO F***G LOUD AND IT'S TOO F***G FAST!" (MF was somewhat of a potty mouth).

[Mandryka]

Can we talk a bit about the post Feldman composers, composers who somehow developed what he started? What is there and is there anything with a distinctive voice? Or do they all sound like Feldman ripoffs? Did he have any famous pupils?

Wikipedia lists two Feldman pupils - Kyle Gann and Ilza Nogueira.

[Old San Antone]

Bunita Marcus must be considered a pupil, she claims he stole from her in his late work.  But her music is more harmonically developed, more conventional.  I've forgotten what she said he stole, but she felt his piece dedicated to her was a clumsy effort to flirt.  He used some of her ideas in it.

[T. D.]

Interesting, I used to follow Kyle Gann's blog (last entry 2016) when he had a more active Internet presence, didn't know he was a Feldman pupil.
I don't think his music is at all like Feldman's, main label I'd attach to Gann is "microtonal".

[Mandryka]

Birtwistle was a friend of Feldman's and this is a piece he wrote in Feldman's memory (it's nice!) Birtwistle said

There is a lot of mystery attached to the piece, but at the same time it is very formal. I was a very good friend of Morton Feldman, and I sort of wrote that in a sort of influence of him. But it is the opposite of Feldman, because where Feldman's music is vertical, La Plage is horizontal and is concerned with varied lines.

https://www.youtube.com/v/Bh5kPnZcPT8&ab_channel=pionake

And then Boulez said this about Eclat

I was listening to a work by Morton Feldman. It does not matter which one. Of course, I was perfectly aware of the fact that I was listening to the event more than the music itself, but then, at that moment, the idea of Eclat came to my mind. Under the influence of Feldman's piece I realized that one could compose music with short cells, even single chords, which come from nothing and disappear into nothing. I had long planned to write something with instruments suitable for that, but the idea itself cropped up at that time

https://www.youtube.com/v/6hZxInEtbzU&ab_channel=DanielBrusch

All found on this excellent looking website -- lots of things on it to keep us occupied

https://www.cnvill.net/mfhomage.htm

[T. D.]

By some strange coincidence, just last night I was flipping through the collection of Feldman writings Give My Regards to Eighth Street (purchased and initially read long ago).
I'd forgotten how prominent Boulez was in the book, and was surprised by the number of Feldman-Boulez (or vice versa )discussions included/cited.

[Mandryka]

By some strange coincidence, just last night I was flipping through the collection of Feldman writings Give My Regards to Eighth Street (purchased and initially read long ago).
I'd forgotten how prominent Boulez was in the book, and was surprised by the number of Feldman-Boulez (or vice versa )discussions included/cited.

It's presumably because Feldman had a better reception in Europe, London and Paris especially, than he did in the USA, with its staid music establishment.

[T. D.]

It's presumably because Feldman had a better reception in Europe, London and Paris especially, than he did in the USA, with its staid music establishment.

Yes, agreed.
I think you have the book (Give my regards to Eighth Street), but quoting p. 117 (paperback edition):

In 1972, for instance, I had two three-hour one-man shows on the BBC, plus orchestral performances of The Viola in My Life and Rothko Chapel. I've become part of musical life in England. In America there's really no such thing as "part of musical life."

Here it's more like they know you exist, so they don't have to play you. In Italy they like me. In France I'm hardly known, and when I'm played, they don't care for it.

It's like this: my eleven-year-old nephew went up to Leinsdorf at Tanglewood a few years ago and asked him for his autograph.
"Well, young man. You are a musician?"
"No, but my uncle is."
"Ah. What is his name?"
"Morton Feldman."
"Ah. Congratulations."
Congratulations. But he will never play me.

Once Charles Munch was a listener at a concert where one of my works was played. He came over and kissed me. Put his arm around me and kissed me. He said, "You are a poet." But he will never play me.