Author Topic: Morton Feldman (1926-1987)  (Read 98198 times)

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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Morton Feldman (1926-1987)
« Reply #740 on: July 24, 2021, 11:55:39 PM »
Does anyone know if Feldman was aware of Radulescu? Or even vice versa.


This may be a crazy line of thinking. But listening to Radukescu’s 4th quartet made me think very much of the harmony and structure of For Samuel Beckett.
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Offline Artem

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Re: Morton Feldman (1926-1987)
« Reply #741 on: July 26, 2021, 12:23:39 PM »
Herbert Henck playing Triadic Memories

https://soundcloud.com/user-985460328/sets/herbert-henck-beginner-studio

Almost like Reinbert de Leeuw playing Satie.

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Morton Feldman (1926-1987)
« Reply #742 on: September 28, 2021, 06:52:56 AM »
I’m listening to the Pellegrini Quartet’s recording of Violin and String Quartet. This piece doesn’t get mentioned much. Do you think this is a successful work?

Yes! I mean it's late period Feldman, so it is on the long-ish side, but I like it better than either of the SQs for example. Piano and String Quartet is also quite good.
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Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Morton Feldman (1926-1987)
« Reply #743 on: September 28, 2021, 06:56:02 AM »
I really liked Marc-Andre Hamelin's interpretation of For Bunita Marcus (I believe the second slowest one I've heard) but frustratingly Hyperion have added some digital processing like ambience or ringing quality to the middle and upper registers of the piano. For me kills a lot of the enjoyment of this, barely listenable on headphones and just acceptable on speakers. I'm not sure why Harmonia Mundi and Hyperion do this to many of their solo piano recordings.

Forget the Hamelin and give this one a listen:

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Re: Morton Feldman (1926-1987)
« Reply #744 on: September 29, 2021, 02:00:41 PM »
Does anyone know if Feldman was aware of Radulescu? Or even vice versa.
They were certainly aware of one another, having both been on the faculty of the Darmstadt courses in the 1980s. I doubt very much that either's work influenced the other though. Radulescu's 4th Quartet is focused on harmonic spectra whereas Feldman wasn't at all concerned about such things.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Morton Feldman (1926-1987)
« Reply #745 on: September 30, 2021, 07:27:15 AM »
They were certainly aware of one another, having both been on the faculty of the Darmstadt courses in the 1980s. I doubt very much that either's work influenced the other though. Radulescu's 4th Quartet is focused on harmonic spectra whereas Feldman wasn't at all concerned about such things.

I have absolutely no idea why I said that in June! I may well have been drunk. But seeing it again has prompted me to listen to half of Arditti’s Radulescu 4, which is nice.

There used to be 6 Radulescu quartets on YouTube, 4 seemed to be a breakthrough one, one where he found a really distinctive voice.

By the way, have you heard the new Radigue? Occam 3. I like it a lot.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2021, 07:54:36 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Morton Feldman (1926-1987)
« Reply #746 on: September 30, 2021, 09:17:31 AM »
https://taniacarolinechen.bandcamp.com/album/monitored-feldman

Caroline Chen, Thomas Dimuzio and Jon Leidecker used Triadic Memories as the basis for some improvised live electronics. I think it's rather nice.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/vAkKzBidoHs&amp;ab_channel=TheLabSF" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/vAkKzBidoHs&amp;ab_channel=TheLabSF</a>
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Offline hvbias

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Re: Morton Feldman (1926-1987)
« Reply #747 on: October 03, 2021, 01:56:45 PM »
Forget the Hamelin and give this one a listen:



I heard this after making that post on Hamelin, this performance from Aki Takahashi is excellent but it has even more reverberance than the Hamelin recording so I couldn't tolerate it. My go to is the recording by Philip Thomas on Another Timbre; the performance is exceptional and the recording quality is state of the art. If I recall the label owner is an ex BBC recording engineer which might explain why I've never heard anything poor sounding from them.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2021, 01:59:12 PM by hvbias »

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Morton Feldman (1926-1987)
« Reply #748 on: October 03, 2021, 02:11:07 PM »
I heard this after making that post on Hamelin, this performance from Aki Takahashi is excellent but it has even more reverberance than the Hamelin recording so I couldn't tolerate it. My go to is the recording by Philip Thomas on Another Timbre; the performance is exceptional and the recording quality is state of the art. If I recall the label owner is an ex BBC recording engineer which might explain why I've never heard anything poor sounding from them.

Hmmm...I'm not sure if I'm following you with the state of the art comment in regards to recording quality. Mode Records, in general, have especially high standards in their recording practices and I have to say I never heard a poor sounding recording from their label. I should give a listen to the Philip Thomas performance, though as I don't think I've heard it and I own that box set of Feldman solo piano music.
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Offline hvbias

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Re: Morton Feldman (1926-1987)
« Reply #749 on: October 03, 2021, 02:26:27 PM »
Hmmm...I'm not sure if I'm following you with the state of the art comment in regards to recording quality. Mode Records, in general, have especially high standards in their recording practices and I have to say I never heard a poor sounding recording from their label. I should give a listen to the Philip Thomas performance, though as I don't think I've heard it and I own that box set of Feldman solo piano music.

My comment on state of the art was not meant to put down Mode, but to praise Another Timbre. Mode are excellent too, but with this particular recording the reverberance is too much for me.

Listen to the way the notes trail off on the Takahashi performance, I've never heard a piano sound like that in dozens of different environments that I've heard them. It sounds like they either added it in digitally or if that is natural the room must have really live sounding walls like tons of glass.

(I know this sounds recording snobby, I'm not, with Feldman it draws me in closer to the music when it sounds as realistic as possible. Given disparities in performance I'd certainly choose the one not recorded as well)
« Last Edit: October 03, 2021, 02:28:14 PM by hvbias »

Offline Artem

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Re: Morton Feldman (1926-1987)
« Reply #750 on: October 04, 2021, 01:54:43 AM »
Vey interesting exchange on these recent For Bunita Marcus recordings. Makes me want to hear them both now. I only heard a few, but my favourite is Hildegard Kleeb on HatArt.

Another Timbre is a great label. My exposure to their Feldman catalogue is limited, but I found their performance kind of formalistic, not particularly surprising.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Morton Feldman (1926-1987)
« Reply #751 on: October 04, 2021, 07:35:06 AM »

My go to is the recording by Philip Thomas on Another Timbre; the performance is exceptional and the recording quality is state of the art.

The decay of the piano is indeed impressively captured and it contributes a lot to the interest of the interpretation.
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Offline Artem

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Re: Morton Feldman (1926-1987)
« Reply #752 on: October 25, 2021, 12:00:22 AM »
I have listened to Aki Takahashi latest recording of For Bunita Marcus on Mode twice now.

Both times I dozed off somewhere closer to the middle of the disk, but what I noticed so far is that as I listened to her playing I felt like she starts rather fast, but slows down towards the end of the piece. I cannot properly describe the sound of the piano, but I think I'm in agreement with hvbias. There's uncomfortable ringing of the piano, like the strings and the piano are made of glass.

I will give it another more concentrated listen soon. So far, I don't think it brings anything new to my appreciation of Feldman's music and will not replace Kleeb in that specific composition.


Online T. D.

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Re: Morton Feldman (1926-1987)
« Reply #753 on: October 25, 2021, 11:44:47 AM »
I have listened to Aki Takahashi latest recording of For Bunita Marcus on Mode twice now.

Both times I dozed off somewhere closer to the middle of the disk, but what I noticed so far is that as I listened to her playing I felt like she starts rather fast, but slows down towards the end of the piece. I cannot properly describe the sound of the piano, but I think I'm in agreement with hvbias. There's uncomfortable ringing of the piano, like the strings and the piano are made of glass.

I will give it another more concentrated listen soon. So far, I don't think it brings anything new to my appreciation of Feldman's music and will not replace Kleeb in that specific composition.

Thanks. I don't go for multiple recordings of many works. Bought Kleeb's recording back when it was newish and enjoy it a lot, never thought of adding other versions.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Morton Feldman (1926-1987)
« Reply #754 on: October 30, 2021, 03:36:51 AM »
I have listened to Aki Takahashi latest recording of For Bunita Marcus on Mode twice now.

Both times I dozed off somewhere closer to the middle of the disk, but what I noticed so far is that as I listened to her playing I felt like she starts rather fast, but slows down towards the end of the piece. I cannot properly describe the sound of the piano, but I think I'm in agreement with hvbias. There's uncomfortable ringing of the piano, like the strings and the piano are made of glass.

I will give it another more concentrated listen soon. So far, I don't think it brings anything new to my appreciation of Feldman's music and will not replace Kleeb in that specific composition.

I’m spending a bit of time with Feldman’s late music at the moment, though not so much solo piano - it’s For John Cage which has captured my imagination. But I’m intrigued by what you say here and I would like to explore how For Bunita Marcus has been received soon.

What I’d really appreciate is this: could you say some more about the surprising, unexpected, twists and turns which you have discovered in Kleeb’s recording? Where are they? (Actually while typing this I’ve put the recording on and bingo! I’ve just heard one!)

« Last Edit: October 30, 2021, 03:42:59 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Morton Feldman (1926-1987)
« Reply #755 on: October 30, 2021, 03:39:57 AM »
I heard this after making that post on Hamelin, this performance from Aki Takahashi is excellent but it has even more reverberance than the Hamelin recording so I couldn't tolerate it. My go to is the recording by Philip Thomas on Another Timbre; the performance is exceptional and the recording quality is state of the art. If I recall the label owner is an ex BBC recording engineer which might explain why I've never heard anything poor sounding from them.

Through listening to For John Cage I’ve started to understand more how piano decay is important in Feldman’s music, and in that piece, Tilbury’s two recorded performances are particularly impressive. It may be interesting to hear what he does with For Bunita Marcus.

Tilbury, like Kleeb, and unlike Takahashi, comes to Feldman with a lot of experience in improvised music and graphic and text scores (which I see as quasi improvised music.)
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Online T. D.

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Re: Morton Feldman (1926-1987)
« Reply #756 on: October 30, 2021, 07:52:18 AM »
I think the piano (and other instruments) decay in Feldman (and Cage number piece) releases may depend strongly on the recording label/venue/techniques.
I've always found Hat Art / hatology recordings outstanding in that regard. Also Another Timbre and Etcetera (going from smaller sample sizes).
In my limited experience, American labels don't do such a good job with this. I once purchased For Philip Guston on Bridge, found the sonics weirdly bright, and sold it. Don't own many relevant Modes, but the Mode number piece discs I own don't convey decay very well. Three Voices on New Albion was weird for other reasons; sounded to me like Joan La Barbara was using a click track and the clicks remained audible on the recording. Pitched that one as well.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2021, 07:54:49 AM by T. D. »

Offline Artem

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Re: Morton Feldman (1926-1987)
« Reply #757 on: October 31, 2021, 01:04:08 AM »
I’m spending a bit of time with Feldman’s late music at the moment, though not so much solo piano - it’s For John Cage which has captured my imagination. But I’m intrigued by what you say here and I would like to explore how For Bunita Marcus has been received soon.

What I’d really appreciate is this: could you say some more about the surprising, unexpected, twists and turns which you have discovered in Kleeb’s recording? Where are they? (Actually while typing this I’ve put the recording on and bingo! I’ve just heard one!)

There's a recording of Feldman performing his pieces on editionRZ. I think Kleeb's playing is somewhat similar to Feldman's. In that sense Kleeb version of For Bunita Marcus was a kind of total experience to me. I didn't feel a pianist behind the piece. I may be biased because I love that composition and Kleeb was the first I listened to and greatly enjoyed when I was just discovering Morton Feldman.

Offline Artem

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Re: Morton Feldman (1926-1987)
« Reply #758 on: October 31, 2021, 02:27:33 AM »
Compared these two versions of Coptic Light. Capriccio longer version at 27:26 sounds more suited to this piece than CPO 23:51. Still, it is one piece that I have a problem with. It makes me physically uncomfortable and tense. I think one has to be in a kind of lucid state of mind to get into its psychedelic nature.


Online milk

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Re: Morton Feldman (1926-1987)
« Reply #759 on: October 31, 2021, 03:59:59 AM »
Compared these two versions of Coptic Light. Capriccio longer version at 27:26 sounds more suited to this piece than CPO 23:51. Still, it is one piece that I have a problem with. It makes me physically uncomfortable and tense. I think one has to be in a kind of lucid state of mind to get into its psychedelic nature.


I didn't know Ensemble Avantgarde's version. Thanks. Is this piece like other Feldman works? I'd like to say that Coptic light has something different about it. I love this piece so much and I can't put my finger on what it is. It's not an exploration of sounds and timber the way his chamber music is. It has more of a narrative feel to it while being circular at the same time. I don't know how it does what it does. I don't know how it's so perfect but it is. I'll have to compare the two recordings.
ETA: I actually like CPO. I'd never heard it. It seems more mellow, more flowing, more ominous, more spacious and more organic.  Capriccio has great sound quality. CPO is the winner for me at first glance. 
« Last Edit: October 31, 2021, 04:49:04 AM by milk »