Morton Feldman (1926-1987)

Started by bhodges, March 12, 2008, 10:57:40 AM

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Mandryka

Quote from: hvbias on November 15, 2021, 02:30:54 PM
Thanks I just ordered that from the one Discogs seller that will ship to the US. This is the longest version I've seen, I only own the one made with a few of the Apartment House members coming in at 74 minutes. Performance and balances are impeccable on that, Mark Knoop seems to have a great grasp of it plays quite well. I've heard one where either the balances were off or the pianist was playing too loud. I'm also intrigued that Aki Takahashi knew Feldman and this was recorded a couple of months before he died so maybe there is a chance he heard it.

I wrote on the previous page my feelings on the music. To expand I don't think music has ever brought my mood down. This piece paints an image of fog rolling over the lake and one of my favorite Feldman encounters was listening to it on the porch watching the lake very early in the morning. The smaller ensemble string works are also some of my go to music when fishing out on the lake as well.

Pieces like some of Cage's Number Pieces, Rothko Chapel, Coptic Light, etc are intellectually stimulating but ones like Piano, Viola, Violin, Cello (among other late Feldman works) are musically and intellectually satisfying for me.

For me music that is more eerie/scary is one where the tension is high. Penderecki, Ligeti, and likes more often come to mind (there was some discussion of The Exorcist and Shutter Island in the Penderecki thread). Non classical Scott Walker The Drift is a really good one. Also scary good on high end headphones, I nearly fell out of my chair the first time I heard it on Stax, sounds coming from way out to the side of you and behind you. Sunn are another good one though I lost interest in them after Black One. So I don't really see Piano, Viola, Violin, Cello as that eerie either.

I'll have to revisit Trio, when I first heard it I thought it was middle era Feldman, but I was clearly wrong about that. I like Pattersn In a Chromatic Field.

I'm feeling a bit negative about the Apartment House interpretation, which seems to me flat and lifeless compared with the one you just bought. But as you say, the sound is good and probably the performance is impeccable.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Selig

I've thought that the longest Feldman recordings are rarely the best - I should do the opposite and start looking for the shortest recordings of each piece!

Mandryka

#802
Quote from: Artem on November 13, 2021, 12:57:08 PM
Trio on the other hand is more to my liking.

Well I've started to really enjoy this. It's much less tense than Tilbury et al, which I was listening to before.

But I don't think Selig would approve!

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

staxomega

Quote from: Selig on November 17, 2021, 02:42:13 AM
I've thought that the longest Feldman recordings are rarely the best - I should do the opposite and start looking for the shortest recordings of each piece!

Triadic Memories:
https://youtu.be/YnFMI3OXZQk

Of all the various Feldman performances I've heard this is the one that most radically different from others tempo wise. I don't think it really works that well, the passing time between when the bass cords are struck and the resonance that fills it between that is what really makes Triadic Memories for me. When they're played in more rapid succession (relative to other performances) it sort of detracts from the piece.

I've been unable to find a free to view score for Triadic Memories or Piano, Violin, Viola and Cello to see if there are tempo indications and dynamic markings for the two respectively.

T. D.

#804
Quote from: hvbias on November 18, 2021, 07:17:49 AM
Triadic Memories:
https://youtu.be/YnFMI3OXZQk

Of all the various Feldman performances I've heard this is the one that most radically different from others tempo wise. I don't think it really works that well, the passing time between when the bass cords are struck and the resonance that fills it between that is what really makes Triadic Memories for me. When they're played in more rapid succession (relative to other performances) it sort of detracts from the piece.

I've been unable to find a free to view score for Triadic Memories or Piano, Violin, Viola and Cello to see if there are tempo indications and dynamic markings for the two respectively.

This Youtube video shows the Triadic Memories score along with the Aki Takahashi recording (not sure of label):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46X7s2T93XY
On cursory scan, there are a few dynamic markings...I noticed several "ppp" and a "ppppp". A lot of tricky time signature changes, which Feldman is known for.

Similarly, this Youtube link plays PVVC (Quartetto Klimt / Stradivarius) along with a (crude-looking handwritten) score:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9gNrEUBPu8
On cursory scan I saw no dynamic markings save the initial "ppp".

wind-

Quote from: hvbias on November 18, 2021, 07:17:49 AM
Triadic Memories:
https://youtu.be/YnFMI3OXZQk

Of all the various Feldman performances I've heard this is the one that most radically different from others tempo wise. I don't think it really works that well, the passing time between when the bass cords are struck and the resonance that fills it between that is what really makes Triadic Memories for me. When they're played in more rapid succession (relative to other performances) it sort of detracts from the piece.

I've been unable to find a free to view score for Triadic Memories or Piano, Violin, Viola and Cello to see if there are tempo indications and dynamic markings for the two respectively.


Not sure someone would stumble upon that version if they were looking for the 'shortest' recording as the length of that is dead center of field in the listed cd recordings with 8 longer and 8 shorter versions out there.


sheet

http://en.scorser.com/Out/300578318.html


Curious anomaly

http://rosewhitemusic.com/piano/2015/10/07/a-question-about-rhythm-in-triadic-memories/

T. D.

#806
Quote from: wind- on November 19, 2021, 07:18:31 AM

...


Curious anomaly

http://rosewhitemusic.com/piano/2015/10/07/a-question-about-rhythm-in-triadic-memories/

Thanks, extremely interesting. I'm inclined to think that the "separate" notes are preferable, but the "simultaneous" version is so deeply imprinted on my mind (mainly via Goldstein recording) that further listening is in order: Takahashi and Woodward.

Mandryka

#807
Christina Fong plays Feldman with vibrato. She's a violinist with a complete works set for piano and violin, and a recording of Violin and String Quartet.

I enjoy what she does, I can't explain why. It seems like simple, honest, unpretentious music making to me -- speaks directly as it were. The phrase to describe how I hear her is: she plays violin like an angel.

I just wonder if anyone has a view about vibrato in this music, or indeed whether anyone else has sampled Fong's musiking.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

T. D.

#808
Quote from: Mandryka on November 22, 2021, 11:39:40 AM
Christina Fong plays Feldman with vibrato. She's a violinist with a complete works set for piano and violin, and a recording of Violin and String Quartet.

I enjoy what she does, I can't explain why. It seems like simple, honest, unpretentious music making to me -- speaks directly as it were. The phrase to describe how I hear her is: she plays violin like an angel.

I just wonder if anyone has a view about vibrato in this music, or indeed whether anyone else has sampled Fong's musiking.

I have a great deal of respect for Fong's music-making, but long ago, either the first or second Cage number piece recording I bought was this.



Just personal taste (and mine is dubious), but I found her violin tone there a bit reminiscent of a dentist's drill and sold (or donated, I forget) the disc. Was tempted by various subsequent recordings, incl. Cage, Feldman and Hovhaness, but never pulled the trigger.


Vibrato: I'll have to audition her Feldman and research/mull over "what Feldman would think".

T. D.

Not so easy to audition Fong's Violin and String Quartet (not on bandcamp), but I've been listening to For John Cage ( https://ogreogress.bandcamp.com/album/complete-violin-viola-and-piano-works ) and greatly enjoy her playing on that piece, vibrato and all.
May go for that recording (Complete Violin​|​Viola and Piano Works). Violin and String Quartet interests me less; as mentioned, I'm not so much into Feldman's work for strings alone.

Still have to research Feldman's thoughts on vibrato (if they were ever expressed for posterity).

Mandryka

Quote from: T. D. on November 24, 2021, 09:11:59 AM
Not so easy to audition Fong's Violin and String Quartet (not on bandcamp), but I've been listening to For John Cage ( https://ogreogress.bandcamp.com/album/complete-violin-viola-and-piano-works ) and greatly enjoy her playing on that piece, vibrato and all.
May go for that recording (Complete Violin​|​Viola and Piano Works). Violin and String Quartet interests me less; as mentioned, I'm not so much into Feldman's work for strings alone.

Still have to research Feldman's thoughts on vibrato (if they were ever expressed for posterity).

I'm glad you enjoy it, I certainly do! 

I looks like it is going to appear on bandcamp imminently in remastered form - maybe write to her and see when.

https://ogreogress.bandcamp.com/album/violin-and-string-quartet-two-pieces-for-three-pianos-dear-merce-intermission

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

wind-

Quote from: Mandryka on November 24, 2021, 10:20:52 AM
I'm glad you enjoy it, I certainly do! 

I looks like it is going to appear on bandcamp imminently in remastered form - maybe write to her and see when.

https://ogreogress.bandcamp.com/album/violin-and-string-quartet-two-pieces-for-three-pianos-dear-merce-intermission

I enquired a month ago as the August release date was ambiguous this far down the road and received a note that album hadn't been released yet with no other info.

I am planning on replacing my 10 year old iTunes download with higher quality when the time comes.

As for the other, Complete Violin​|​Viola and Piano Works I've listened to For John Cage quite a few times. Not one of my top 3 versions but I do enjoy a diversity of interpretations and especially as Fong's is the shortest some parts stand out.



Mandryka

Gentlemen, what are you thoughts about For Philip Guston?

(Since I seem to be really liking the duos with piano at the moment.)
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

T. D.

Quote from: wind- on November 24, 2021, 11:12:28 AM
I enquired a month ago as the August release date was ambiguous this far down the road and received a note that album hadn't been released yet with no other info.

I am planning on replacing my 10 year old iTunes download with higher quality when the time comes.

As for the other, Complete Violin​|​Viola and Piano Works I've listened to For John Cage quite a few times. Not one of my top 3 versions but I do enjoy a diversity of interpretations and especially as Fong's is the shortest some parts stand out.

Which For John Cage recordings do you rate highly? I'm considering the Zukofsky/Marianne Schroeder on CP2, mainly for historical reasons (Zukovsky premiered it), though I also like the Schroeder recordings I've heard.

Quote from: Mandryka on November 24, 2021, 12:45:26 PM
Gentlemen, what are you thoughts about For Philip Guston?

(Since I seem to be really liking the duos with piano at the moment.)

Repeating, I love the instrumentation (flutes, percussion, piano/celeste) and listening for short periods (1 CD or so), but it's just too long for me. I lack the mental serenity (for want of a better word) to listen to ultra-long Feldman, and tend to feel claustrophobic after a couple of hours.

milk

Quote from: Mandryka on November 24, 2021, 12:45:26 PM
Gentlemen, what are you thoughts about For Philip Guston?

(Since I seem to be really liking the duos with piano at the moment.)
I had thought that this was one of his best compositions. It's been a while. It's hard to make time and space for it but I'd probably put it forward as representative of what Feldman is about.
So, there's the Ear Unit and the Hat. Honestly, this work is too long for me to remember how these compare and I've never heard the Wergo. Anybody?

T. D.

As I recall, the California Ear Unit is well-played, but recorded with a really bright acoustic unlike any other Feldman chamber recording I've heard (I'm most familiar with the hatology releases that generally have a dry acoustic). I don't own it any more, sold it long ago because I wasn't likely to listen very much. As often happens, I now kinda wish I'd kept it. Maybe the brightness wouldn't bother me so much these days.

There's also an oop recording by members of the SEM Ensemble on Dog with a Bone records (affiliated with Paula Cooper Gallery, NYC). I've heard that group live, it'd probably be "in the pack" with alternatives.
I periodically consider buying the Wergo (it's generally cheaper than the alternatives), but haven't done so.

Mandryka

Someone should make a For Philip Guston highlights recording.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

#817
Quote from: T. D. on November 25, 2021, 07:33:42 AM
As I recall, the California Ear Unit is well-played, but recorded with a really bright acoustic unlike any other Feldman chamber recording I've heard (I'm most familiar with the hatology releases that generally have a dry acoustic). I don't own it any more, sold it long ago because I wasn't likely to listen very much. As often happens, I now kinda wish I'd kept it. Maybe the brightness wouldn't bother me so much these days.

There's also an oop recording by members of the SEM Ensemble on Dog with a Bone records (affiliated with Paula Cooper Gallery, NYC). I've heard that group live, it'd probably be "in the pack" with alternatives.
I periodically consider buying the Wergo (it's generally cheaper than the alternatives), but haven't done so.

The longest (so obvs the best) is Carla Rees, John Tilbury, Simon Allen. Listening now - but I'm also trying to make a soufflé at the same time so the conditions aren't ideal.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

wind-

Quote from: T. D. on November 24, 2021, 06:14:13 PM
Which For John Cage recordings do you rate highly? I'm considering the Zukofsky/Marianne Schroeder on CP2, mainly for historical reasons (Zukovsky premiered it), though I also like the Schroeder recordings I've heard.



The Zukofsky/Schroeder I've had since the 90's so that is what is most familiar to me. There is a pervasive scraping sound in many sections which I was never sure was intentional or not until this past summer when I acquired some other versions and they don't have that.
Regardless, I would recommend and you can choose whatever quality download you like at whatever price you choose at Bandcamp, even $0.
Those extraneous sounds are on the download as well though.

Maybe I'm a bit in the shiny new toy syndrome as far as recent favorites.

I probably listen most now to the Orazbayeva/Knoop on All That Dust. Has the odd quality of wanting me to start up again as soon as it finishes which is rare for me given its length.

My other favorite at the moment is the recent Hat Hut by Wegmann/Kunz.
The sound is extremely loud and intense so probably not for you but is exquisite if you can capture the 'right' volume. The trails of vanishing notes doesn't come across listening at the Bandcamp site online. Though this is one of the longer versions(90 minutes) it doesn't feel so and pairs well with the Fong(66+ minutes) as a study in contrasts.






Artem

Quote from: milk on November 25, 2021, 07:07:47 AM
I had thought that this was one of his best compositions. It's been a while. It's hard to make time and space for it but I'd probably put it forward as representative of what Feldman is about.
So, there's the Ear Unit and the Hat. Honestly, this work is too long for me to remember how these compare and I've never heard the Wergo. Anybody?
Wergo is the only version of For Philip Guston that I have. It is played and recorded very well, I think. I listened all the way through the 4 CDs only once and the feeling of silence at the end was rather intense.

The last time I played it was like 5 years ago, but it is really a great piece of music. One of the best composition in a contemporary classical music category.