Morton Feldman (1926-1987)

Started by bhodges, March 12, 2008, 10:57:40 AM

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milk

#200
Quote from: EigenUser on April 02, 2014, 12:27:24 PM
You can do what I did: http://www.youtube-mp3.org/

;)

Unless you want to pay $150 for the CD, that's the only option as of now. I don't know why this particular one is so difficult to find.
Hmm...I was not able to get this to work. It says error due to copyright issues.   

snyprrr

Quote from: milk on April 02, 2014, 12:22:42 PM
Thanks so much. Someone else in another thread also pointed this out. I have a sort of neurotic need to have sound files of music. I don't know why since the link is perfectly good at home or on my phone as well.

Here, let me dissuade you- it's such a dreary piece next to Piano and String Quartet.

EigenUser

Quote from: snyprrr on April 02, 2014, 12:57:51 PM
Here, let me dissuade you- it's such a dreary piece next to Piano and String Quartet.
But sometimes I like dreary!  :)
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".

snyprrr

Quote from: EigenUser on April 02, 2014, 01:00:52 PM
But sometimes I like dreary!  :)

Well, if you like For Samuel Beckett, then you'll like this, same procedure and tone range (same as Clarinet and String Quartet, too- I just don't like these particular pieces because they use the same 'way'. The other way was the more melodic one, like Piano and String Quartet (notice there's only one violin missing, but the two pieces sound very different... in Feldman terms, that is!).

I used to have the HatHut cd of the piece in question- isn't there now an available rival?

EigenUser

Quote from: snyprrr on April 02, 2014, 01:07:03 PM
Well, if you like For Samuel Beckett, then you'll like this, same procedure and tone range (same as Clarinet and String Quartet, too- I just don't like these particular pieces because they use the same 'way'. The other way was the more melodic one, like Piano and String Quartet (notice there's only one violin missing, but the two pieces sound very different... in Feldman terms, that is!).

I used to have the HatHut cd of the piece in question- isn't there now an available rival?

For me, the characteristic quality of the "Piano and String Quartet" is the combination of the slowly-rolled piano chords and the string accompaniments almost acting like overtones (not that they are actually overtones, but that's the effect I feel it has).
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".

snyprrr

Quote from: EigenUser on April 02, 2014, 01:09:42 PM
For me, the characteristic quality of the "Piano and String Quartet" is the combination of the slowly-rolled piano chords and the string accompaniments almost acting like overtones (not that they are actually overtones, but that's the effect I feel it has).

But in that roll, there is a repeated melody,... which i do not find in Piano, Violin, Viola, Cello. Y'know what I mean? The first one is more like Triadic Memories, and the second is more like Bunita Marcus. I've always liked the first style better, but...

7/4

Quote from: EigenUser on April 02, 2014, 01:09:42 PM
For me, the characteristic quality of the "Piano and String Quartet" is the combination of the slowly-rolled piano chords and the string accompaniments almost acting like overtones (not that they are actually overtones, but that's the effect I feel it has).

An analysis of Morton Feldman's "Piano and string quartet"
by Frank Sani:

http://www.cnvill.net/mfsani2.htm

snyprrr

Does anyone have both recordings of the Violin Concerto, Widmann and Faust? Wergo's sound lately has been pretty sumptuousm and the ECM sample didn't sound as up-front as I might have liked? Anyone?

Artem

I have Widmann's Violina and Orchestra and I personally don't have a problem with its sound. But I'm not an expert.

Piano, Violin, Viola, Cello used to be available on BVHAAST web-site http://wbk.home.xs4all.nl/bvhaastwinkel.html, but it not any more, unfortunately. Hopefully, HatHut will reissue it soon as it is indicated in their upcoming releases section: http://www.hathut.com/upcoming. I haven't heard that piece yet.

snyprrr

The consensus seems to be that Faust may be a little more intense, and that her orchestral support has a more "aggressive" edge (with Feldman, you can either bias the 'mellow' aspect, or the 'creepy/aggressive' aspect- know what I mean?). The 'live' Wergo recording, was criticized for having a bit of "extraneous noise and audience", which, certainly, one could do without.

However, there is a sample of the Premiere, with Zukovsky conducted by none other than Cristobal Halffter, and that version sounds really intense- surely one can hear the mellow/aggressive distinction between Widmann (also on YT) and Zukovsky?

Still, if one had no knowledge of the other two, Widmann's sounds fine in its own context. I'll obviously have to go with her anyway, since Faust is already pretty expensive, and Zukovsky is unreleased.

EigenUser

Quote from: snyprrr on April 02, 2014, 03:28:37 PM
But in that roll, there is a repeated melody,... which i do not find in Piano, Violin, Viola, Cello. Y'know what I mean? The first one is more like Triadic Memories, and the second is more like Bunita Marcus. I've always liked the first style better, but...
Oops, missed this post. Absolutely -- the roll gives the listener (or, at least, me) more to hang on to. There are also those suspenseful sections with the solo cello harmonics...

The two pieces are definitely different. I think that one reason I like Feldman so much (also one reason I like Ravel so much) is that he makes such beauty out of blatant textbook-dissonances.
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".

milk

Quote from: Ephemerid on March 12, 2008, 11:05:28 AM
I love how he is able to make the weirdest dissonances sound so delicate & beautiful...
This hits the nail on the head for me, especially in Coptic Light. How does he do it? One piece I don't have is the piano trio (just called "trio"). I see Takahashi (et al.) has a recording of it. It hasn't been mentioned recently.

EigenUser

Quote from: milk on April 05, 2014, 08:29:10 AM
This hits the nail on the head for me, especially in Coptic Light. How does he do it? One piece I don't have is the piano trio (just called "trio"). I see Takahashi (et al.) has a recording of it. It hasn't been mentioned recently.
That's it -- I need to hear "Coptic Light" again. Today!
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".

Ken B

Quote from: EigenUser on April 04, 2014, 02:44:52 PM
I think that one reason I like Feldman so much (also one reason I like Ravel so much) is that he makes such beauty out of blatant textbook-dissonances.

Seems connected to your (IMO sensible) aversion to dodecaphonists, who generally do no such thing.

milk

Quote from: Ken B on April 05, 2014, 05:20:28 PM
Seems connected to your (IMO sensible) aversion to dodecaphonists, who generally do no such thing.
Seems to make sense in this context (someone was posting these great quotes from Steven Reich in the listening thread):

"German romanticism was dying and he [Schoenberg] was the beginning of its death." Feldman certainly seems like the anti-romantic.

This leads me to this interesting quote:
"I don't have a Romantic bone in my body!  I'm not interested in any music from Josef Haydn to Wagner.  If it all disappeared tomorrow morning I wouldn't even know it!  My interest in Western music begins in synagogue chant, goes up to Johann Sebastian Bach, then jumps to Debussy, jazz, and the present." - Steven Reich
So do the Feldman fans here appreciate Reich? What's the next move from Feldman? And who else writes quiet music?

Artem

Maybe Jacob Ullmann - http://www.edition-rz.de/3359-107,2,0.html ? His music is rather quiet.

For me, Feldman is best first and foremost with piano works, then with his chamber music and then with orchestral pieces.

Since Trio has been mentioned, I should say that I don't like it as much. I find Crippled Symmetry, which is another work for three players, more interesting.

petrarch

Quote from: Ken B on April 05, 2014, 05:20:28 PM
Seems connected to your (IMO sensible) aversion to dodecaphonists, who generally do no such thing.

Seems too quick a non sequitur, as there is nothing preventing someone from enjoying Feldman and the serialists very deeply, while still finding some interest in the minimalists (e.g. me, just to be clear and to give a concrete example).
//p
The music collection.
The hi-fi system: Esoteric X-03SE -> Pathos Logos -> Analysis Audio Amphitryon.
A view of the whole

milk

Quote from: Artem on April 05, 2014, 05:52:31 PM
Maybe Jacob Ullmann - http://www.edition-rz.de/3359-107,2,0.html ? His music is rather quiet.

For me, Feldman is best first and foremost with piano works, then with his chamber music and then with orchestral pieces.

Since Trio has been mentioned, I should say that I don't like it as much. I find Crippled Symmetry, which is another work for three players, more interesting.
Thanks for the recommendation. The samples sound great!

snyprrr

No one ever said if we had any gaping holes in the Discography... anyone? I see most everything now, what am I missing?

EigenUser

Quote from: milk on April 05, 2014, 05:40:46 PM
Seems to make sense in this context (someone was posting these great quotes from Steven Reich in the listening thread):

"German romanticism was dying and he [Schoenberg] was the beginning of its death." Feldman certainly seems like the anti-romantic.

This leads me to this interesting quote:
"I don't have a Romantic bone in my body!  I'm not interested in any music from Josef Haydn to Wagner.  If it all disappeared tomorrow morning I wouldn't even know it!  My interest in Western music begins in synagogue chant, goes up to Johann Sebastian Bach, then jumps to Debussy, jazz, and the present." - Steven Reich
So do the Feldman fans here appreciate Reich? What's the next move from Feldman? And who else writes quiet music?
I really like Reich. His "Music for 18 Musicians" and "The Desert Music" are great pieces. Have you heard either of these?
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".