Morton Feldman (1926-1987)

[EigenUser]

Why Patterns?
Crippled Symmetry
For Philip Guston
For Christian Wolff

Crippled Symmetry. I haven't yet heard "For Christian Wolff", though.

Which do you prefer out of Feldman's 4 Flute Sonatas,a nd why? I like FPG for the initial melodic cell, byt WP? for the length. I would like a comination of the two.

One Feldman combo, coming right up! Anything else you'd like with that? 

[milk]

Why Patterns?
Crippled Symmetry
For Philip Guston
For Christian Wolff

Which do you prefer out of Feldman's 4 Flute Sonatas,a nd why? I like FPG for the initial melodic cell, byt WP? for the length. I would like a comination of the two.

I also like Crippled Symmetry. A friend of mine seems to think Feldman is all desolation. I think not at all. CS shows that. As Octave write, it's like watching a natural process. This piece brings to mind National Geographic the bees and the birds! It's like a meditation on nature.   

[milk]

I really get to thinking how this Brooklyn Jewish-ghetto boy, just like my parents, could have made something so Zen and so much about natural beauty. Well, it was a generation that produced quite a few Bu-Jews, (not just like mine!).

[torut]

I really get to thinking how this Brooklyn Jewish-ghetto boy, just like my parents, could have made something so Zen and so much about natural beauty. Well, it was a generation that produced quite a few Bu-Jews, (not just like mine!).

According to Nyman's book Experimental Music, Feldman was not interested in Zen.

Feldman has denied any interest in Zen, which to him is just another 'think system', no better and no worse than any other (he once said 'my whole debt to Oriental culture is Chinese food').

But, of course, being naturally Zen and having an interest in or studying Zen are different things. 

[Octave]

Crippled Symmetry starts out like you're walking in the maze, but in the end you find an exist.

This is the greatest typo ever.  Whether it's a typo or not! 

I think I have heard three recording of CS, and for whatever reason the EAR Unit one was the most vivid for me.  There were moments where I thought the overtone series was creeping out of the flute to get me.  No idea if this was the performance or my own attunedness.  Anyone who has not heard this piece could surely do worse than to acquire this recording.  One of these recordings (a live recording from Buffalo, iirc, by the musicians who worked most closely with Feldman himself....toured with him: Blum/Vigeland/Williams) was actually released by a one-time/sometime member of GMG, by his Frozen Reeds label.  For some reason the performers' credit ('The Feldman Soloists') cracks me up.

You are not the first I've heard praise the ORCHESTRA (Mode) disc.  I need it.

[milk]

According to Nyman's book Experimental Music, Feldman was not interested in Zen.But, of course, being naturally Zen and having an interest in or studying Zen are different things. 

Right. Interesting. I see he was friends with abstract expressionists like Barnett Newman. I thought these guys had a connection to Zen but now I don't see references to it on a web search. Hmm....I thought it was part of the spirit of that time. Anyway, I don't know quite how to put this. There is something that calls for a kind of presence in experiencing this music. Maybe I want to say that the music is not linear in the way other music is... Well, perhaps someone else will find a more coherent way of putting this.   

[snyprrr]

Here you guys are trying to find something spiritual in Feldman, when, frankly, all he is doing is documenting the sound of him smoking cigs!! IIn... Out... Wooosh... In... Out... Woosh...

t's THAT simple!!

[7/4]

Here you guys are trying to find something spiritual in Feldman, when, frankly, all he is doing is documenting the sound of him smoking cigs!! IIn... Out... Wooosh... In... Out... Woosh...

t's THAT simple!!

cynic!

[milk]

Here you guys are trying to find something spiritual in Feldman, when, frankly, all he is doing is documenting the sound of him smoking cigs!! IIn... Out... Wooosh... In... Out... Woosh...

t's THAT simple!!

Ha! Yes, well it could just be that! That could be an achievement also!

[milk]

...continuing my fascination with Feldman. Today was the first time I sat down with Violin and Orchestra. I'm listening to Widmann. This piece is mysterious and full of imagination. I never get bored with it or tired of it and it's a somewhat different experience than the other Feldman pieces I've been listening to. Yes, happily, I'm still intrigued.

[EigenUser]

...continuing my fascination with Feldman. Today was the first time I sat down with Violin and Orchestra. I'm listening to Widmann. This piece is mysterious and full of imagination. I never get bored with it or tired of it and it's a somewhat different experience than the other Feldman pieces I've been listening to. Yes, happily, I'm still intrigued.

Not to be pushy, but did you check out the Ligeti I recommended? I'm interested in knowing what you think, especially of "Clocks and Clouds". Some of the sounds remind me of those in Feldman's "Rothko Chapel", but fuller and more dramatic (as opposed to, well, sparse and dramatic -- I guess a more suspenseful type of drama that I associate with Feldman).

There is a phenomenal performance of "Rothko Chapel" on YouTube you might want to check out. Besides being a wonderful performance, it is also a very high quality video with nice film editing (you know, different shots of players).
http://www.youtube.com/v/9wHuh1yR0z8

[snyprrr]

Orchestra is my favourite Feldman CD from Mode out of the ones that I have.

Just arrived. have the 'Ecstasy of the Moment' to compare 'Voice and Instruments' I and II. Oooo... time to strap in!

[milk]

Not to be pushy, but did you check out the Ligeti I recommended? I'm interested in knowing what you think, especially of "Clocks and Clouds". Some of the sounds remind me of those in Feldman's "Rothko Chapel", but fuller and more dramatic (as opposed to, well, sparse and dramatic -- I guess a more suspenseful type of drama that I associate with Feldman).

There is a phenomenal performance of "Rothko Chapel" on YouTube you might want to check out. Besides being a wonderful performance, it is also a very high quality video with nice film editing (you know, different shots of players).
http://www.youtube.com/v/9wHuh1yR0z8

Oh. I still need to check it out. I think I'll look for it today. I'll look at the link also!

[snyprrr]

Orchestra is my favourite Feldman CD from Mode out of the ones that I have.

'Orchestra' (Mode)

Yes, now it's MY fav! I love the selection of pieces (it seems all the rest of the bigger pieces are on Mode's Barton Workshop and Turfan Ensemble discs). The early 'Intersections' is very random sounding, almost like the middle of Xenakis's 'Metastaseis'. 'Orchestra' has a lot of interesting bits in its 18 minutes; I like the 4-5 piano chords half way through- then gone! There's definitely a painterly palette thing going on here,- it's not as active as 'Violin and Orchestra', more like 'Piano and Orchestra'. There's a lot to compare with Xenakis, I think, just the process: both Composers are creating 'Objects' in Time/Space, vast, inscrutable monoliths, slabs that are going nowhere fast. At least, I think they were friendly...

THE FELDMAN ESSENTIALS

1) 'Orchestra' (Mode)
2) 'The Ecstasy of the Moment' (Etcetera)
3) 4 Concertos (CPO)
    HONORABLE: Coptic Light (Argo)

4) Piano and String Quartet (Nonesuch)

5) For Philip Guston (Bridge) OR String Quartet II (Mode DVD)

and then, my 'Single Disc Feldman' recommendations:

Triadic Memories (Takahashi) @60mins.!
Trio (HatHut)
Patterns in a Chromatic Field/Untitled... (Attaca;Tzadik)
For John Cage (Zukofsky)

[milk]

'Orchestra' (Mode)

Yes, now it's MY fav! I love the selection of pieces (it seems all the rest of the bigger pieces are on Mode's Barton Workshop and Turfan Ensemble discs). The early 'Intersections' is very random sounding, almost like the middle of Xenakis's 'Metastaseis'. 'Orchestra' has a lot of interesting bits in its 18 minutes; I like the 4-5 piano chords half way through- then gone! There's definitely a painterly palette thing going on here,- it's not as active as 'Violin and Orchestra', more like 'Piano and Orchestra'. There's a lot to compare with Xenakis, I think, just the process: both Composers are creating 'Objects' in Time/Space, vast, inscrutable monoliths, slabs that are going nowhere fast. At least, I think they were friendly...

THE FELDMAN ESSENTIALS

1) 'Orchestra' (Mode)
2) 'The Ecstasy of the Moment' (Etcetera)
3) 4 Concertos (CPO)
    HONORABLE: Coptic Light (Argo)

4) Piano and String Quartet (Nonesuch)

5) For Philip Guston (Bridge) OR String Quartet II (Mode DVD)

and then, my 'Single Disc Feldman' recommendations:

Triadic Memories (Takahashi) @60mins.!
Trio (HatHut)
Patterns in a Chromatic Field/Untitled... (Attaca;Tzadik)
For John Cage (Zukofsky)

Great! I've just downloaded Orchestra and Patterns, neither of which I had previously. Maybe I need to find the Ligeti thread...Clocks and Clouds sounds great on youtube but I can't locate a download of it. I may need to order the CD. I need to figure out Ligeti because some of the stuff I've tried here and there didn't grab me (like the horn Trio). I have a recording of his etudes also and while I see there is genius there I just haven't been deeply attracted to it. But Clocks and Clouds is fantastic. Thanks EigenUser!
Well, I guess I need to give Xenakis a shot.

[Ken B]

...continuing my fascination with Feldman. Today was the first time I sat down with Violin and Orchestra. I'm listening to Widmann. This piece is mysterious and full of imagination. I never get bored with it or tired of it and it's a somewhat different experience than the other Feldman pieces I've been listening to. Yes, happily, I'm still intrigued.

He's always interesting. I don't always like it but I never feel, well enough of him. I'll continue to sample occasionally.

[Artem]

Very interesting breakdown of the Feldman essentials, snyprrr.
I guess the CPO cd will be among my next future purchases and I hope that The Ecstasy of the Moment gets a reissue someday.

My essentials would be For Bunita Marcus (HatArt) and Triadic Memories (MDG) in pinao solo, Violin and Orchestra and Viola and My Life both on ECM and Mode's Orchestra.

[amw]

I might go with Ecstasy of the Moment, Edition RZ s/t, Untitled Composition, Neither (HatArt or Musica Viva, doesn't matter which) and I guess Triadic Memories.

CPO disc is in the listening pile. I'll get around to it at some point.

[EigenUser]

Great! I've just downloaded Orchestra and Patterns, neither of which I had previously. Maybe I need to find the Ligeti thread...Clocks and Clouds sounds great on youtube but I can't locate a download of it. I may need to order the CD. I need to figure out Ligeti because some of the stuff I've tried here and there didn't grab me (like the horn Trio). I have a recording of his etudes also and while I see there is genius there I just haven't been deeply attracted to it. But Clocks and Clouds is fantastic. Thanks EigenUser!
Well, I guess I need to give Xenakis a shot.

Glad you like it! I wrote about it (with embedded sound files) on my notes page here: http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,22986.0.html . The recording is on Teldec's "The Ligeti Project", volume three:
[asin]B00006F1P9[/asin]
I never really liked the horn trio very much, but I need to hear it again. The etudes took me a while to warm up to which is odd since most people seem to immediately like many of them. From my experiences, even people who don't care for modern classical have enjoyed them (especially the case with jazz fans and the 4th etude "Fanfares", which also happens to be my favorite). But, I do like most of them by now. His "Clocks and Clouds" is the first piece of his that I heard and it remains to be my favorite. Try his "Lontano" as well. It wasn't as immediately accessible as "Clocks and Clouds", but it is similar. I still don't really like "Atmospheres" very much. It's okay, but I think that it's his least-developed piece in his early style.

Here's the Ligeti thread: http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,25.0.html

I really wish that it was called something cool. You know, like "Ligeti's Living Room", etc... 

[snyprrr]

Very interesting breakdown of the Feldman essentials, snyprrr.
I guess the CPO cd will be among my next future purchases and I hope that The Ecstasy of the Moment gets a reissue someday.

My essentials would be For Bunita Marcus (HatArt) and Triadic Memories (MDG) in pinao solo, Violin and Orchestra and Viola and My Life both on ECM and Mode's Orchestra.

How do you like the sonics for MDG's 'Triadic'? He gets a cd to go for 80:46!!! Takahashi's runs for 60:00, and there's a third that runs 75:00. The rest seem to go up by 10 minute intervals, until we get to the lady with the blue cd cover (and maybe Woodward) who go for, about, 140:00.

I'd like to record 'Violin & String Quartet' at half speed to get it on one disc. Hey, if Takahashi can play 'Triadic' at 60mins., them, why not? (what exactly is the CORRECT timing for 'Triadic'?)