Morton Feldman (1926-1987)

Started by bhodges, March 12, 2008, 10:57:40 AM

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not edward

Quote from: Mandryka on January 14, 2015, 09:22:17 PM
I wonder how suitable the music is for a concert, where you have to start at the start and end at the end.Sonmeone's playing Triadic Memories in the Wigmore Hall in a few weeks. I'm not sure if I'll go.
I've found Feldman easier to appreciate live than on CD. On CD, it's easy to lose focus; the concert setting makes that less of an issue.
"I don't at all mind actively disliking a piece of contemporary music, but in order to feel happy about it I must consciously understand why I dislike it. Otherwise it remains in my mind as unfinished business."
-- Aaron Copland, The Pleasures of Music

Mandryka

Well if I do go I'll take a persian rug along with me and lie down in the aisles.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

torut

Quote from: edward on January 15, 2015, 04:18:27 AM
I've found Feldman easier to appreciate live than on CD. On CD, it's easy to lose focus; the concert setting makes that less of an issue.
I have not heard Feldman's music live but I think I would agree. It is the most unsuitable music for background listening.

Quote from: Mandryka on January 15, 2015, 08:44:53 AM
Well if I do go I'll take a persian rug along with me and lie down in the aisles.
It should be ideal. I would like to listen to Feldman in concert like this. (This is Riley's concert.)

Artem

#363
Quote from: Mandryka on January 14, 2015, 08:54:17 PM
Please say a bit more about this if you have time. When you say that the 2nd quartet is trickier than the string quintet, do you mean trickier to play or trickier to appreciate?
I think it is both. I'm not a professional musician, but I suppose the 3 hour difference in length of the two pieces should make the 2nd String Quartet more difficult to play. The Piano and String Quartet to my ears is much more straightforward piece and it follows just one path, while with the 2nd SQ you have these various alternating segments and they make you feel like you're walking in a maze.

I have listened to the Piano and String Quartet a number of times. I've also fallen asleep to it on a number of occasions. But I haven't had a chance to listen to the 2nd SQ through yet.

Maybe I'll try to give both works a listen this weekend. However, as much as I like late Feldman music I find it is very hard to find dedicated time for him these days.

torut

Isn't Mandryka talking about "Violin and String Quartet"?

Artem


Mandryka

Yes, Violin and String Quartet. I'm not so keen on Piano and String quartet, I find the ideas not so interesting and a bit too sweet and cloying. The string quintet is a winner IMO, I have the recording on Hat Hut and exploring it has been very satisfying.

Previously I had been listening to it on youtube and I had had a much less positive response. Sound quality is important - particularly for hearing the relation between the violin and string quartet and relishing the dark dissonances in the last third of the music.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Rinaldo

Quote from: torut on January 15, 2015, 04:02:26 PMI have not heard Feldman's music live but I think I would agree. It is the most unsuitable music for background listening.

I have the exact opposite experience and play Feldman as background a lot, to set the tone or mood of the moment. When I saw For John Cage live, it was very hard for me to keep my concentration, but I loved it when played at home, free to drift in & out of the music as it went by.

milk

Quote from: edward on January 15, 2015, 04:18:27 AM
I've found Feldman easier to appreciate live than on CD. On CD, it's easy to lose focus; the concert setting makes that less of an issue.
My friend's wife is playing Why Patterns with a group at the end of the month in Kyoto. I'm quite looking forward to it.

EigenUser

Quote from: Rinaldo on January 15, 2015, 11:47:24 PM
I have the exact opposite experience and play Feldman as background a lot, to set the tone or mood of the moment. When I saw For John Cage live, it was very hard for me to keep my concentration, but I loved it when played at home, free to drift in & out of the music as it went by.
I feel the same way. I came across this funny YouTube comment on the video for Piano and String Quartet:

putting this on while doing anything makes your life more like a living art house movie... try it, put it on while you iron, or do the washing up... tell me you won't have those 'stare off into the distance' moments where you think real deep <close up> and... wonder..........
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".

Mandryka

Today I've started to listen to Patterns in a Chromatic Field, I think it's outstanding - lively, and full of interest.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

milk

Quote from: Mandryka on January 16, 2015, 12:57:23 PM
Today I've started to listen to Patterns in a Chromatic Field, I think it's outstanding - lively, and full of interest.
I like these small-scale works so much. I feel a strong connection with them. Patterns, Crippled and Guston come to mind. I guess I like the delicacy and the simplicity of the voices. I feel like I'm inhabiting them as I listen. 
Why Patterns is a smaller piece I'll be seeing live next week. I'm curious about how the live performance will affect me.
I was wondering recently why Feldman's work hasn't been used much in film.

Mandryka

#372
Well Patterns in a Chromatic Field isn't really a short piece - about 90 minutes. There are a whole bunch of late pieces which are exciting and dramatic and turbulent and full of variety, and Patterns in a Chromatic Field is one of them. Others would be the Trio, and Violin and String Quartet. The idea that Feldman's music is repetitive and sweet and tame and quiet and slow and pointless isn't quite right for all his late work.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

milk

Quote from: Mandryka on January 16, 2015, 08:55:58 PM
Well Patterns in a Chromatic Field isn't really a short piece - about 90 minutes. There are a whole bunch of late pieces which are exciting and dramatic and turbulent and full of variety, and Patterns in a Chromatic Field is one of them. Others would be the Trio, and Violin and String Quartet. The idea that Feldman's music is repetitive and sweet and tame and quiet and slow and pointless isn't quite right for all his late work.

I used the wrong word. I meant to say these intimate pieces for a few musicians. Chamber works. Yes, Crippled is quite long; Guston very is long. But I think they are my favorites. Perhaps these are all 80s works. 

torut

Quote from: Rinaldo on January 15, 2015, 11:47:24 PM
I have the exact opposite experience and play Feldman as background a lot, to set the tone or mood of the moment. When I saw For John Cage live, it was very hard for me to keep my concentration, but I loved it when played at home, free to drift in & out of the music as it went by.
When Feldman is played while I am doing something that requires modest brain activities, the music sometimes irritates me. If I concentrate on the music, it is very good, but once my focus veers away, it starts sounding a disturbance. So, to me, Feldman's music requires concentration, and that is the reason I find it difficult. An exception is Triadic Memories. It's almost always good under whatever circumstances.

milk

#375
Quote from: milk on January 16, 2015, 12:07:22 AM
My friend's wife is playing Why Patterns with a group at the end of the month in Kyoto. I'm quite looking forward to it.
My friend told me today that his wife's group had expected the Feldman piece to be less demanding than it is. Apparently, they've added rehearsals. In the past, she has played Cage, Ligeti, Xenakis, Stockhausen, etc. I find it interesting that they might have underestimated the demand of playing Feldman. I wonder if he is deceptively simple. I'm much looking forward to their performance. The flautist will also perform a solo piece of Scelsi.

EigenUser

Quote from: milk on January 19, 2015, 07:23:03 PM
My friend told me today that his wife's group had expected the Feldman piece to be less demanding than it is. Apparently, they've added rehearsals. In the past, she has played Cage, Ligeti, Xenakis, Stockhausen, etc. I find it interesting that they might have underestimated the demand of playing Feldman. I wonder if he is deceptively simple. I'm much looking forward to their performance. The flautist will also perform a solo piece of Scelsi.
That will be a great one to see live. Not too long, either. I don't think I'd have the patience and/or attention span to sit in an audience for 2+ hrs for one of his large-scale works.

Last night I was thinking about Coptic Light. I don't know -- just kind of rambling thoughts about the piece that I feel like sharing. Throughout its 30 minute duration, it seems like the whole orchestra is working to a synchronized ostinato figure (i.e. repetitive rhythm). Around 10 minutes from the end it finally starts to get there, and it definitely gets there around 5 minutes from the end (string pizzicato, harp, staccato winds and brass). Then it just kind of stops...
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".

milk

Quote from: EigenUser on January 22, 2015, 11:22:26 AM
That will be a great one to see live. Not too long, either. I don't think I'd have the patience and/or attention span to sit in an audience for 2+ hrs for one of his large-scale works.

Last night I was thinking about Coptic Light. I don't know -- just kind of rambling thoughts about the piece that I feel like sharing. Throughout its 30 minute duration, it seems like the whole orchestra is working to a synchronized ostinato figure (i.e. repetitive rhythm). Around 10 minutes from the end it finally starts to get there, and it definitely gets there around 5 minutes from the end (string pizzicato, harp, staccato winds and brass). Then it just kind of stops...
Yes, I think so. Recently I realized that the version of Why with Feldman (New World) on piano is much better than the version with Gaylord Mowrey (New Albion).
I would like to try a longer one live some time - particularly Crippled Symmetry.
I like Coptic Light very much. I feel it would be a good one to see live. It reminds me of what I imagine the sensation of floating through moonlit clouds would be. There is something sinister in it, but, as usual, it's a natural kind of sinister (to me). Music like this should be caustic. But it isn't. It's kind of soft somehow. How does he make dissonance work like this?

Artem

New Feldman recording is coming out soon.



QuoteFeldman's last work, Piano, Violin, Viola, Cello displays the qualities of the "late style": complete mastery, utter assurance, and a kind of luminous melancholy. Like Palais de Mari, written a year earlier, it unfolds at a leisurely pace, with similar uses of repetition and recurrence, gentle rocking figures, and a somewhat restricted range. The measured unfolding of the material, without emphasis on dramatic contrast or large fluctuations in the rate of change, enables the listener to focus on the work's many subtle and beguiling details.

http://www.bridgerecords.com/products/feldman-piano-violin-viola-cello-1987-morton-feldman-vol-5/

EigenUser

Quote from: Artem on January 25, 2015, 08:40:49 PM
New Feldman recording is coming out soon.



http://www.bridgerecords.com/products/feldman-piano-violin-viola-cello-1987-morton-feldman-vol-5/
*steals picture*

*goes to "Worst Looking Album Covers" thread*

I like this piece. A lot. I prefer P&SQ, but it's great to see that it is getting another recording.
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".