Modern composers

[canninator]

I'll make a recommendation in completely the opposite direction for a different perspective on music you might like. I would recommend the music of the Ars subtilior of the 14th and early 15th century. This is music of unprecedented rhythmic complexity that was arguably not matched until the 20th century (the use of isorhythms was a very, very early form of serialism). Check out the Ensemble Organum recording of selections from the Codex Chantilly.

[Henk]

I'll make a recommendation in completely the opposite direction for a different perspective on music you might like. I would recommend the music of the Ars subtilior of the 14th and early 15th century. This is music of unprecedented rhythmic complexity that was arguably not matched until the 20th century (the use of isorhythms was a very, very early form of serialism). Check out the Ensemble Organum recording of selections from the Codex Chantilly.

Interesting, I'll try.

Others I'm investigating:

some dutch composers:
Louis Andriessen
Edward Top (listen at his site: http://www.edwardtop.com/audio.htm, really interesting)
Jan van Vlijmen
Kees van Baren

Stockhausen
Sessions
Russian avantgardists like Mossolov
Kurtag
Nunes
Scelsi
Maderna
Grisey

[Henk]

You may also want to investigate the music of Nikos Skalkottas, one of Schoenberg's most gifted students. In his serialist works he developed a personal method, using more than one tone-rows per work (he also wrote tonal and atonal music).

I''m listening to samples right now. Sounds good.

[Henk]

Some others (don't know if they are do atonal music):

Almeida Prado
Valentin Silvestrov
Sofia Gubaidulina
Francois-Bernard Mâche
Bent Sorensen
Magnus Lindberg
Jukka Tiensuu
Sciarrino
Saariaho
Kancheli
Hosokawa
Takemitsu
Nordheim

[Henk]

Here is a good overview in additition to the serialism wikipedia page I posted earlier:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_classical_music

It also contains some useful links (including this radio station:
http://www.contemporary-classical.com/).

[quintett op.57]

I'm neither a musician nor musicologist but it seems to me that a fairly clear distinction can be made between tonal music and atonal on the other hand.  Arnold Scheonberg pretty much invented atonal music,

Liszt invented it.

[The new erato]

There's a big difference between atonality (music with no tonal centre , which have been around since the middle ages - Fumeux fume par fumee by Solage eg - and probably before that), and serial music built on Schoenbergian tonerows (which necessarily implies atonality).

[Haffner]

Karl Henning certainly has some interesting music.

I also like Mr. Gorecki.

[Robert Dahm]

There's a big difference between atonality (music with no tonal centre , which have been around since the middle ages - Fumeux fume par fumee by Solage eg - and probably before that), and serial music built on Schoenbergian tonerows (which necessarily implies atonality).

Depends on how you define 'atonality' and, more importantly, how you define 'tonality'.

One definition of 'tonality' is based around the system of harmony utilising major and minor modes, triads, modulations, etc. In other words, diatonic functional harmony. If you wish to go with this definition, than anything written before about 1600 is non-tonal, and a fair bit written after 1600 is too. Particularly if you want to go back as far as the 14th Century, music was not really thought about in terms of 'harmonic' verticalities. Vertical combinations of voices were considered in purely contrapuntal terms - it was not until hundreds of years later that practice aggregated into what me might think of as harmonic progressions. This leads, in the 14th Century particularly, to some really weird music (with even weirder notation).

The other definition I'm aware of for 'tonality' is as a generic noun used to denote pitch behaviours. For instance, Pelog and Slendro as used in Balinese and Javanese Gamelan could be described as 'tonalities'.

I would hesitate, though, to define Fumeux fume par fumée (or any other Ars Subtilior music, for that matter) as 'atonal', because while the 'harmonic' (and I use the term loosely...) framework is constantly shifting, it still observes a very strong sense of cadence (in the same way as Machaut, Landini and - slightly later - Dufay did), leaving the listener in no doubt as to where you are. As pointed out above, though, there's an argument that says that this music is all 'non-tonal'.

[The new erato]

Good post Robert, I am aware of the difficulties of defining atonal musica - since nobody bothered to define atonality here I went with the more "provocative" (in view of this discussion) view of atonality, that is in view of the use of church modes. I don't, however, always find the use of cadence in this music so pronounced that one unhesitantly can define it as tonal, it is perhaps more non-tonal than atonal as you mention but we are getting clos to splitting hairs here .

[Robert Dahm]

Fair enough. And the relationship of the music of Solage to the 'Guidonian'-type model of modality makes musica ficta in this repertoire a frequently problematic proposition, too, which further undermines the sense of 'harmonic' stability.

What I wouldn't give to spend just a day in the papal court at Avignon in ~1390 just listening to how they actually performed this music.

[Henk]

a few more:

dutilleux
dusapin
martinu
knussen
chin
sallinen
nancarrow
murail

[Henk]

I've made a document of it .

[Catison]

Composers I like are Schoenberg, Webern, Satie, Ligeti, Rihm, Wuorinen, Varese, Lachenmann, Goebbels, Kagel, Vivier. I would like to hear if I forget some important names so I can discover some other works..

Do yourself a favor and get a copy of Alex Ross's The Rest Is Noise.  This book will make these composers come alive for you.

[Henk]

Do yourself a favor and get a copy of Alex Ross's The Rest Is Noise.  This book will make these composers come alive for you.

I already read about that book. Seems a really interesting book. I just ordered it .

[Catison]

I already read about that book. Seems a really interesting book. I just ordered it .

Good for you.  If you give that a read, you'll know more about modern composers than 90% of the people here.

[Henk]

Good for you.  If you give that a read, you'll know more about modern composers than 90% of the people here.

Haha

[MN Dave]

Do yourself a favor and get a copy of Alex Ross's The Rest Is Noise.  This book will make these composers come alive for you.

I should get that. Thanks for the reminder.

[bhodges]

Henk, since you're listening to Kagel, you might be interested in these two recordings on UbuWeb, available free for online listening: Acustica and Der Schall.

There's also a collection of short Kagel films, here, which I haven't watched yet but look fascinating.  (This site is quite extraordinary.)

--Bruce

[Henk]

Henk, since you're listening to Kagel, you might be interested in these two recordings on UbuWeb, available free for online listening: Acustica and Der Schall.

There's also a collection of short Kagel films, here, which I haven't watched yet but look fascinating.  (This site is quite extraordinary.)

--Bruce

Bruce, thanks for letting me know. I'm indeed very charmed by Kagel's music, actually today I bought another album of his (piano works). What do you think of Kagel? I haven't listened to the old style work of Kagel much, so I'm very curious for those recordings and also for those movies. Interesting site indeed.

Henk