Rautavaara's Riverboat

[Dundonnell]

Hi Colin! I think it's a mistake Netherlanders (!) often make - saying Scotch instead of Scots or Scottish. I made the error myself a few days ago (remember?)... But I am cured of it now, I hope.

I know I arrogantly thought that I was performing my little contribution to international-or at least Dutch(?)-understanding

The Scots-like some other of the smaller nations-tend to get a bit 'itchy' about any references to themselves. I just about jumped out of my chair with rage the other night when one of the judges on the BBC programme 'The Apprentice' referred to an idiotic contestant as having a classics degree from Edinburgh and another judge replied "Edinburgh is not what it used to be"! But, who knows....maybe she is correct!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I know I arrogantly thought that I was performing my little contribution to international-or at least Dutch(?)-understanding

As long as your contributions remain little, there is no arrogance there I can see... But Scottish-Dutch relations have improved markedly, the last few minutes. 

[Subotnick]

Rautavaara is a name I've always come across, but never known where to start. Saw this thread come up in recent posts, came right over and found what promises to be a great reccomendation on page 1!  I have found the Naxos Cantus Arcticus disc to stream. I'm just a few minutes in and it's very interesting to say the least!  This is one of the things I was hoping would happen when I came here just over a week ago. Long may this forum introduce me to new, great music.

TTFN.
Me.

[Wanderer]

Concerning Scotch...

USAGE: In the north of England and in Scotland, Scotch is not used outside fixed expressions such as Scotch whisky. The use of Scotch for Scots or Scottish is otherwise felt to be incorrect, esp. when applied to people.

(dictionary entry)

[Lethevich]

Re Scotch: A comedian I like (Stewart Lee) has a DVD of a routine in Scotland in which he has a prolonged part on intentionally insulting "Scottishness" in a long-winded and hilariously overblown and farsical way. The one thing I remember most is not how ridiculous the routine got towards the end (by which time the audience was laughing), but the very beginning, when he sets up his "ignorant" credentials by intentionally referring to Scots as "Scotch" - he was immediately chided by one of the audience, almost torpedoing the whole thing. So indeedie, they don't seem to like it

[Dundonnell]

Re Scotch: A comedian I like (Stewart Lee) has a DVD of a routine in Scotland in which he has a prolonged part on intentionally insulting "Scottishness" in a long-winded and hilariously overblown and farsical way. The one thing I remember most is not how ridiculous the routine got towards the end (by which time the audience was laughing), but the very beginning, when he sets up his "ignorant" credentials by intentionally referring to Scots as "Scotch" - he was immediately chided by one of the audience, almost torpedoing the whole thing. So indeedie, they don't seem to like it

We don't like it-you are quite right but that's no reason why others shouldn't take a pot at our national pomposity

[rw1883]

Listening this evening to Symphony #3 (Ondine/Pommer) and what an impact!  I first listened to Symphonies 1-6 a few years back (all Pommer) and from what I remember, I enjoyed all of them.  But fresh ears can make a big difference! 

Rautavaara fans: which recording of the 3rd is your favorite (I'm assuming Pommer, Lintu, and Segerstam are the only ones)?

By the way, Hannu Lintu is in San Antonio this weekend performing Isle of Bliss, Beethoven PC #4 (Groh), and Sibelius 2.  I'll be there...

Paul

[Kullervo]

I've just listened to the Naxos recording of the 7th symphony "Angel of Light" and Angels and Visitations for the fourth time, and, while they are immediately attractive pieces with very plush orchestration, after a few listens the "modern" touches (e.g. Ligeti-ish swarming string clusters) start to feel tacked on to what would otherwise be music not out of place in a modern soundtrack. Granted, it's an enjoyable piece, but not one that I feel has any staying power.

I'm still interested in hearing the rest of the cycle. 

[CRCulver]

A friend of mine went to the European premiere of A Tapestry of Life a few nights ago here in Helsinki. He claims it was completely indistinguishable from Manhattan Trilogy or Book of Visions. The comment of his I found funniest was: "It's pretty bad that I could actually predict what it would sound like before it was even played. I expected the opening to be a D minor chord with added ninth, and there it was."

[greg]

I've just listened to the Naxos recording of the 7th symphony "Angel of Light" and Angels and Visitations for the fourth time, and, while they are immediately attractive pieces with very plush orchestration, after a few listens the "modern" touches (e.g. Ligeti-ish swarming string clusters) start to feel tacked on to what would otherwise be music not out of place in a modern soundtrack. Granted, it's an enjoyable piece, but not one that I feel has any staying power.

I'm still interested in hearing the rest of the cycle. 

I feel the same way....... it doesn't feel like there is much substance to the 7th symphony. I mean, what did he have in mind? Attractive colors? I don't hear much besides that.......

[vandermolen]

I like the 8th Symphony. Parts may sound like 'film music' but my response to this is 'so what?' I feel that the symphony does convey a real sense of journey and home-coming and that is enough for me. Actually I rather like works that focus on 'atmosphere' rather than 'argument' although I guess that a synthesis of the two is best of all.

[Grazioso]

The thing about Rautavaara is that a good amount of his recent work sounds alike (i.e., flaccid and bland New Age music), but his oeuvre does include real gems. I was just listening to his beautiful flute concerto again last night, and it was impressive as ever. Don't write him off because of his latest pieces.

[CRCulver]

The thing about Rautavaara is that a good amount of his recent work sounds alike (i.e., flaccid and bland New Age music), but his oeuvre does include real gems. I was just listening to his beautiful flute concerto again last night, and it was impressive as ever. Don't write him off because of his latest pieces.

I agree that it's his recent work that sounds all alike, but "recent" here means the last almost 40 years. I've found very few works from  after 1970 that are more than fluff. Anyone wanting to hear some substantial Rautavaara has to go back to pieces like the Symphony No. 3 in the 1960s.

[Mark G. Simon]

I love his Clarinet Concerto. It is a beatiful contribution to the clarinet repertory. I don't care much for his early music.

[btpaul674]

I agree that it's his recent work that sounds all alike, but "recent" here means the last almost 40 years. I've found very few works from  after 1970 that are more than fluff. Anyone wanting to hear some substantial Rautavaara has to go back to pieces like the Symphony No. 3 in the 1960s.

It's fun to track Rautavaara's development from the earlier works into pieces like his 3rd symphony and beyond. He seemed to be constantly refining his serialist techniques culminating into that wildly Brucknerian 3rd. While his style definitely evolved, he kept revisiting and revising old works to update them into whatever appropriate style he was working with. Moreover, coherence in his oeuvre can be traced from the Three Symmetrical Preludes up into A Tapestry of Life. Examine the opening to the 1st symphony as opposed to the opening of the Clarinet Concerto that Mark brought up.

Rautavaara's propensity for autoquotations and intertextual motifs define his compositional life. I appreciate the fact he can produce works that are superficially similar, but these works are generated by a variety of techniques.

[vandermolen]

New box set of complete symphonies, to date, about to be released by Ondine:

[Wanderer]

New box set of complete symphonies, to date, about to be released by Ondine:

More info and samples.
According to the Ondine website, it's due for a March release (and it's already available in Finland).

[vandermolen]

More info and samples.
According to the Ondine website, it's due for a March release (and it's already available in Finland).

Thank you. I liked the opening fragment of Symphony No 1. I was surprised how much it sounded like parts of Symphony No 8.

[Benji]

Boooooooo! 

I don't like the finality of it! He's still alive and kicking and i'm holding out for a 9th.

[vandermolen]

Boooooooo! 

I don't like the finality of it! He's still alive and kicking and i'm holding out for a 9th.

Me too.