Stravinsky: Rite of Spring

[Sergeant Rock]

....what was the first digital Rite?...

I believe it was Maazel's Cleveland recording, Telarc 1980.

Sarge

[Scarpia]

I believe it was Maazel's Cleveland recording, Telarc 1980.

I normally stay clear of any Telarc recording of that vintage if the piece has a bass drum.   

[Sergeant Rock]

I normally stay clear of any Telarc recording of that vintage if the piece has a bass drum.   

Wimp 

When we had a pair of Bose 901s (with a solid bottom down to 20hz), we used to enjoy watching the curtains move as though by gale force winds whenever we played Telarc recordings "featuring" the bass drum. The Shaw Verdi Requiem was especially potent.

Sarge

[Scarpia]

Wimp 

When we had a pair of Bose 901s (with a solid bottom down to 20hz), we used to enjoy watching the curtains move as though by gale force winds whenever we played Telarc recordings "featuring" the bass drum. The Shaw Verdi Requiem was especially potent.

Sarge

I think I know why you don't have them anymore.   

[Sergeant Rock]

I think I know why you don't have them anymore.   

We feared for the structural integrity of our home.

Sarge

[snyprrr]

I normally stay clear of any Telarc recording of that vintage if the piece has a bass drum.   

This, and the following exchange.

[snyprrr]

Ozawa/CSO is a swift, bullish reading with a very exciting Sacrificial Dance, marred by a bad timpani blooper.
Ancerl is interesting but somewhat overrated.
I haven't heard Maazel's Cleveland recording, but his VPO version is weird and heavy handed.
Mehta/NYPO/Sony is big and baggy, lacking the rhythmic snap that the best versions have and prone to the occasional odd shift in tempo.

"marred by a timpani blooper",... arrrgh!!, haha...

I'[m downloading your comments into my brain. Soon, EVERY recording will have someone's criticism marked next to it, haha!!

I VANT PERFECTION!!


ah, this Thread is starting to get into my head,...nooooooo!!

[Brahmsian]

I wonder if John Williams was inspired by The Rite, for his Jaws theme?  Me thinks so.   

[snyprrr]

I wonder if John Williams was inspired by The Rite, for his Jaws theme?  Me thinks so.   

Oh no, the hockey fans have broken through the protective force field!!

RELEASE THE KRAKEN!!

[snyprrr]

Guess who I found at a remote Library??

WOW!!

YESSS!!!


First off, whatever balance issues in the 'Introduction',... either I don't hear them as such, or the recording itself is just 'tiered' that way, which, as I was actually looking for it, didn't find it as the Critics have.

I will TOTALLY ADMIT that the actual recorded orchestra here, the sound, is MONSTROUS!! Big,... HUGE,... like a Grand Guingol(sic),...yes, I guess Barbaric is the word. Beautiful.

I 'hear' a very saturated 'Red' and 'Black' here,... I think I've heard other EMIs with this same sound,... the equivalent of one of those ultra saturated Eastman films. But, it is a verrry verrry DARK & EVIL sounding recording. It certainly brings out the 'Klingon' in the piece, that's for sure!!

The recording/venue, as compared with Dorati/Detroit, is muuuch more spacious, to the point where I feel detail is dulled. The detail is there, but, depending on which group is playing, you will hear things slightly ahead, or slightly behind. I certainly would have put the bass drum a little more forward (as it is, some drum rolls work, and some seem too distant for me).

The Dorati recording, at least, is the model of balance (especially compared with Muti). Everything appears to have the Most Professional impacting/imaging/attack. The Muti sounds more like you're sitting in a hall proper. Perhaps I sound like I criticizing the Muti recording, but, considering that it had such a bad reputation on this front, I think it's just 'judgment choice' made by the engineers, who, I think, were going for a certain 'sound'. I'd say they achieved what they were shooting for. Where I said the Dorati was 'thrilling', this recording,... oh, I forget the word that came to me,... but, it is overwhelmingly compelling, I found,... it has just such a darkness and threatening,... the 'horror' certainly comes out just like what I was looking for (I can't yet pick out moments).

However, I also found the Muti recording a bit more involving in the quieter bits of Part2. This is were I thought Dorati was being slightly simmering,... not that Muti might play it much differently, but the Muti's 'hotter' recording brings everything up close here. These parts I tip towards Muti's recording.


On the famous BRUTALITY FACTOR, WELL, I CERTAINLY FOUND THAT THIS RECORDING WANTS TO GIVE YOU A HEADACHE. IT IS AN EXHAUSTING EXPERIENCE,... whoops, sorry caps,... but, I was so totally involved with what Muti was doing, that I had to make it to the end. But, yea, woah, this recording is very very 'hot'. Perhaps that is why the bass drum is not right up front.

There was one bizarre thing, which sounded like an Edit Gone Bad,... don't remember,... trumpets and drums,... I'll have to find it.

So, yea, it is a very beautifully dark bass recording, very different from the Dorati, yet no less valid in my mind (though, to be sure, on a totally clinical level, this recording does not contend). It does blow one away, and brings the spectacle, to be sure!!


I'm still recovering here,... oy!! Uncle,... Uncle!!

So yea, I was very 'impressed' by the Dorati, and, let's say, 'overwhelmed' by the Muti (or something like that). If Dorati is like a Rolls or Jaguar, Muti is like Death Race 2000.

Keep 'em comin'!!

[snyprrr]

Rattle VS. Dorati'81 & Muti


I finally got the Rattle back (mommy!) from the Library, and eagerly devoured it, having forgotten how it sounded after Dorati and Muti melted my perception (wow, especially Muti's brutal Horror Movie Soundtrack (in a good/bad way of course)). Well, Rattle's very crisp and clinical, but after the other two, now I'm missing sooomething with Rattle.

For one, the bass drum could be a little more upfront, as with the Muti. The Dorati percussion section is the best recorded of these three.

The Rattle recording, too, seems a touch less 'hot' on the microphone, so, though it is crisp and clear, there is still a bit of distance that seems to lessen just a smidgeon of impact. I hear no danger at all in the Intro. ok, a little...

At this point, Rattle falls to Muti for being to polite (for failing to do something as outrageous as Muti), and Rattle falls to Dorati for just general overall package; perhaps it's not all Rattle's fault, but he has been given pretty dynamic sound, and yet I hear nothing dangerous.

I end this fight.

Dorati
Muti
Rattle

My search continues. My travels tell me of a Dark Horse recording that has No Bad Reviews!! Of course, I can't tell you what it is, but, tee hee, here's a clue: it's not Davis, and it's not Haitink.

bwwahhahahaha...

[MDL]

Boulez/CO/Sony... Well, I've droned on about this recording so often, I'm scared of boring everyone to death.

Boulez/CO/DG... A different kettle of fish. It's brilliantly played and Boulez's care and attention to detail is always fascinating. But it's a bit too civilised and lacks edge and bite.

My biggest problem with this recording arises in the Sacrificial Dance. In the second half, after frenzied section underpinned by complex timpani and tam-tam rhythms, there's a sudden moment where the texture is pared down to a simple asymmetrical hopping motif passed between trombones and bowed strings just before the last minute or so. In his DG recording, Boulez (following the example of Stravinsky's own Sony/Columbia recording, it must be said) rescores this passage for bassoons and plucked strings. To my ears, it sounds puny, ineffective and robs the music of its momentum. It's as if somebody had stuck a bit of The Nutcracker in there by mistake. I LOATHE it! I don't care if Stravinsky did it in his own ultimate recording. He was wrong and his first thoughts were correct. Those few seconds rule both Boulez/DG and Stravinsky/Sony out for me. Sorry; it upsets me that much. 

My memory was playing tricks on me and I made a slight boob here. Stravinsky's Columbia recording rescores the passage for bassoons and plucked strings; Boulez keeps the original trombones but uses plucked strings. Meh. Whatever. It still sounds wrong.

[karlhenning]

Crikey, and I left my score at home . . . .

[MDL]

Crikey, and I left my score at home . . . .

Boulez and the Orchestre de Paris in 2002. He does the same thing with the trombones/plucked strings that I hate. At 32'50".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrOUYtDpKCc

[snyprrr]

Just ordered Mackerras/CfP.

I didn't order Davis because I wondered if he'd be too polite, like I found Rattle. And people were saying that Davis was better than Haitink, so,... ... Mackerras it was,... oy vey!! Frankly, I'd like a melding of the Dorati and Muti.

[karlhenning]

FWIW, I like the Rattle, always have.  Don't know if polite is the right word . . . .

[MDL]

Just ordered Mackerras/CfP.

I didn't order Davis because I wondered if he'd be too polite, like I found Rattle. And people were saying that Davis was better than Haitink, so,... ... Mackerras it was,... oy vey!! Frankly, I'd like a melding of the Dorati and Muti.

To be honest, Davis's RCOA recording doesn't always have the energy, impact or rhythmic snap of some Rites; Davis doesn't dance like Abbado, batter like Solti/CSO or thrill like Chailly. But the sounds conjured up in the gorgeous, cavernous acoustic of the Concertgebouw are utterly extraordinary, especially from the percussion section; you'll never hear a tam-tam producing such a distinctive noise in rival Rites, for instance. The atmosphere that Davis creates, mysterious, beautiful and threatening, is magical. Of course, I am talking about a recording I played TO DEATH in my youth, so please excuse my potentially rose-tinted view.   

[snyprrr]

FWIW, I like the Rattle, always have.  Don't know if polite is the right word . . . .

After hearing Dorati and Muti for weeks straight, when I put Rattle on and listening as for the first time (I DO try to always listen Objectively, with no prejudgments) I found those things,... the percussion just doesn't come off like the Dorati recording, for instance.

I found the Ozawa on YouTube today, listened to the first bit,... I was impressed,... very...mmm...'linear'?? Is that what I would call 'clinical'? You could certainly hear everything,... seriously, even in the Dorati (though, if you turn it up LOUD!! you don't have this problem), in the quieter passages,... well, no,... Dorati's sound picture is pretty solid,... you can hear everything, I just think I'd like a 'hotter' recording with absolutely everything in its place in a 'thrilling' acoustic.

Where will Mackerras fit in the ever expanding puzzle? Can't wait.

Will I eventually get the Boulez/Sony? I am inured against everyone's raves (wow, my every thought on the matter is like gold dust, no?,... haha )

sqwak sqwak sqwak

[snyprrr]

To be honest, Davis's RCOA recording doesn't always have the energy, impact or rhythmic snap of some Rites; Davis doesn't dance like Abbado, batter like Solti/CSO or thrill like Chailly. But the sounds conjured up in the gorgeous, cavernous acoustic of the Concertgebouw are utterly extraordinary, especially from the percussion section; you'll never hear a tam-tam producing such a distinctive noise in rival Rites, for instance. The atmosphere that Davis creates, mysterious, beautiful and threatening, is magical. Of course, I am talking about a recording I played TO DEATH in my youth, so please excuse my potentially rose-tinted view. 

that's tempting,... why are so many reticent with the percussion? I do like the 'thwacking' effect in the Muti, I just wish the recording was more naturally balanced. But yea, not hearing much mystery in some of these.

[snyprrr]

Just ordered Mackerras/CfP.

This is niiice!!

The general recording level seems to be down a notch (so, just crank it up!), but everything is so easy to hear on this one. Nothing is too this or too that. I won't say it's a spectacular improvement on Dorati/Decca,... they are similar yet different. This one has the slightly brighter sound. The drums aren't as awesome as Dorati, but they are nestled perfectly in this sound picture.

Mackerras seems to handle the quieter, the mysterious moments much more otherworldly than Dorati, Muti, or Rattle. Perhaps this is similar to Davis. This Intro to Part 2 is just like I've not heard it in the other records, very sultry and mysterious and otherworldly.

He seems to hit all the accents, I hear nothing lacking here, except for maybe a ballsier recording,... but it's not dainty or puny,... it's just about right,... just turn it up at will.

No, I might get Boulez and Chailly to round out the learning curve, but Mackerras really has something special here I think.

Any witnesses?