Topic: What are you currently reading?

[Ken B]

No, I'm not.

Which ones?

Blimey, I'd never have guessed you're a Bible literalist.

So you agree these pleasant tales want only truth and sense? 

Seriously, you agree that those tales are not true, right.

[Florestan]

So you agree these pleasant tales want only truth and sense? 

Seriously, you agree that those tales are not true, right.

No, I don't. You sorely missed my point.

Is Hamlet true? Or Don Quijote? Or Norwich's Byzantine history?

[Ken B]

No, I don't. You sorely missed my point.

Is Hamlet true? Or Don Quijote? Or Norwich's Byzantine history?

In other words you have already accounted for them not being true but being fictional. Well and good. But *as assertions of fact* they are vastly more ridiculous than anything Gibbon gets wrong. That you personally have a way of dealing with their untruth doesn’t make them less untrue.

[Florestan]

In other words you have already accounted for them not being true but being fictional.

No, I haven't.

I'm greatly puzzled by your not being able to distinguish between fictional and allegorical.

But *as assertions of fact* they are vastly more ridiculous than anything Gibbon gets wrong.

Really ?Let's see.

The Bible (abridged): God created the world and everything that's in it in seven days.

In order to assess the merits of this proposition, which was not originally written in English, one has to know the original Hebrew meanings of the words therein. I don't. Do you?

Gibbon (in plain English, abridged): Christianity is the main culprit for the decadence of the Roman Empire.

If this is so, how come that those decadent Christians were able to restore, preserve and defend the most populous and civilized areas of their empire --- which, btw, they never called anything else than Roman; Byzantine is a malicious, ideologically motivated confection --- for almost a millenium after the Western areas fell prey to Germanic barbarians?

[Ken B]

You view it as allegory Andrei, but not everyone has over time. And as a factual guide to world it is ... deficient

[Florestan]

You view it as allegory Andrei, but not everyone has over time. And as a factual guide to world it is ... deficient

Straw men.

[j winter]

Thanks to all for the guidance on matters Roman.   

My birth sign is Gemini, and my wife smiles because I always tend to go two ways at once, usually serious and silly.  Case in point, the other book I'm reading at the moment, in addition to Gibbon, is this (very highly recommended if you're a fan of the show)....

[Ken B]

The criticism of Gibbon has concentrated on the Byzantium parts, but that is not the reason I have so far only read excerpts (maybe 800 pages). We know so much that was unknown in Gibbon's time, and you cannot get that from Gibbon. You don’t learn enough history per minute, and what you learn you cannot really rely on. It’s great as drama.

Peter Heather has written some excellent books.

[Moonfish]

Harold Bloom passed away....   

I liked how he championed the canon and that is of course a whole topic of its own. A thread anybody? I'm grateful for his ideas and guidance navigating the great classics. Of course, his is not the only way to view our global literary heritage, but still an important voice among many others.



NYT: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/14/books/harold-bloom-dead.html

An interesting piece in The Atlantic
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/10/harold-bloom-read-everything/600022/

New Yorker: https://www.newyorker.com/culture/postscript/misreading-harold-bloom

[Ken B]

Harold Bloom passed away....   

I liked how he championed the canon and that is of course a whole topic of its own. A thread anybody? I'm grateful for his ideas and guidance navigating the great classics. Of course, his is not the only way to view our global literary heritage, but still an important voice among many others.



NYT: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/14/books/harold-bloom-dead.html

An interesting piece in The Atlantic
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/10/harold-bloom-read-everything/600022/

New Yorker: https://www.newyorker.com/culture/postscript/misreading-harold-bloom

I liked his attitude: I am not telling anyone what to read or how to read, I am telling them about the books I found worth rereading, and why.

[ritter]

Just starting this:

The bulk of this is unpublished tales--in various states of completion-- written by the 20 year old Proust (at the time of Les plaisirs et les jours), dealing in different ways with the awareness of his homosxuality (which explains to an extent the suppresison of these texts).

[SimonNZ]

Was it you who posted the book on Proust  winning the Prix Goncourt? How was that in the end? I've been waiting for it to show up in English but no sign yet.

[ritter]

Was it you who posted the book on Or just winning the Prix Goncourt? How was that in the end? I've been waiting for it to show up in English but no sign yet.

Indeed, it was me who posted that. It was a pleasure to read. One could have thought that the subject matter wouldn't have warranted its 272 pages, but it went by in a flash. The inside dealings of how the prize is awarded--Léon Daudet (a notorious nationalist and antisemite turned out to be Proust's strongest champion among the jury)--, the machinations of Proust's publishers and of the other strong contender--Roland Dorgèles for his now almost forgotten Les croix de bois (the controversy was mainly about crowning Proust's "escapist" work over Dorgèles's patriotic celebration of war heroes)--, all make for entertaining reading.

[SimonNZ]

Thanks. I hope it won't be too far away in translation.

Also those Camus / Cesares letters.

[Florestan]

Ernst Junger - Das Sanduhrbuch (The Hourglass Book)

A charming and erudite book about the history and philosophy of time measurement with special regard to hourglasses.

[Ken B]

Ernst Junger - Das Sanduhrbuch (The Hourglass Book)

A charming and erudite book about the history and philosophy of time measurement with special regard to hourglasses.

 I assume you read Storm of Steel. I read something else by a much older EJ too, but cannot remember what.

TD, The Sentence is Death, the latest mystery by Anthony Horowitz. Fun so far.

[Ken B]

Inside China's Gulag https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/.premium.MAGAZINE-a-million-people-are-jailed-at-china-s-gulags-i-escaped-here-s-what-goes-on-inside-1.7994216?fbclid=IwAR1QnBzZkO9j7i5UEl98wKapIIS3pGwL4pNeOp_Lk7LpJTGndqNEOv5bHxs

Or as LeBron James would say, uneducated lies!

[j winter]

Quick break from the Gibbon to revisit some classic sci-fi.  It's probably been 35 years since I last read these... Lazarus Long is such a cantankerous old cuss 

[Florestan]

I assume you read Storm of Steel.

No, I didn't. I read On The Marble Cliffs and Heliopolis. Both excellent.

[André]

Storm of Steel is a powerful first person account of combats and life on the front during WWI. Jünger was wounded 14 times and was the youngest ever recipient of Pour le Mérite, Prussia’s highest war distinction. André Gide considered Storm of Steel the best récit de guerre he had read. Much recommended.