Mahler Mania, Rebooted

[snyprrr]

I only have the SACD from the San Francisco Symphony. It's one of my favorites.

"They're" saying the London is TheOne

Any word on Masur? My M6 quest turns into a pumpkim at midnight!

[Dancing Divertimentian]

FWIW my attitude to Mahler is ABB, anybody but Bernstein.   

Love my Bernstein.

[Jay F]

"They're" saying the London is TheOne

Buy both. Let "us" know.

Any word on Masur? My M6 quest turns into a pumpkim at midnight!

I've never heard his Mahler. Not a note.

I like Bernstein's M6 on Sony. But you don't want Bernstein. You lose.

[snyprrr]

Buy both. Let "us" know.
I've never heard his Mahler. Not a note.

I like Bernstein's M6 on Sony. But you don't want Bernstein. You lose.

Actually,  Bernstein 6 on SONY is only 50 cents!


I DID pull the plug on Abbado/Berlin 7- and the "veiled sonority of the orchestra" is what ultimately swayed me- I guess I thought I'd get more 'mystery' here? Anyhow, again, it was 5 cents (but always with that wonderful $4 S+H).


I'm not saying I will only spend pennies, though, in the 6th it is Boulez who is going for pennies-


Can I get a completely BIZARRE 6th? (or-is that Lenny?) Ridiculous? Sarge- the 6th here is something I'd be willing to try any outrageous recording, maybe the more feral the better? With the 7th I think I'd want 'lush', but with the 6th, 'insane, raw, scraping,feral'.

[snyprrr]

Not Walter's 6th...no such thing. He didn't like it, didn't record it. I don't think he ever conducted it.
Sarge

It was Szell that I had in 6 on the cheap SONY. I can't remember the performance but I'm pretty sure it was acquired through Penguin Guide strong arm tactics (their top recommends). But a lot of reviews find Szell to zippy or something, not smelling the dying roses?


I did get Abbado/Berlin for 7 (only 5 cents, can't blame me there, haha!), but I'm stuck on 6. I really want something horribly terrifying or shocking or something- maybe it IS Lenny SONY? (though his DG gets the "one of a kind" sticker)


I'm sorry I'm being such a pain, but economic collapse is right around the corner and I NEED soundtrack material! NOW!!!






But seriously- I get soooo tired of endless amazon review pages just saying BernsteinBernsteinBernstein- but maybe once I get over this mental block I'll fall right in line.




Segerstam 6 Jarvi (the strangest and the fastest?)

[Sergeant Rock]

It was Szell that I had in 6 on the cheap SONY. I can't remember the performance but I'm pretty sure it was acquired through Penguin Guide strong arm tactics (their top recommends). But a lot of reviews find Szell to zippy or something, not smelling the dying roses?

Szell's Sixth is one of my Top 3. It's partly nostalgic (it's a live recording and I was in the audience) but mostly because it's so different than my other favorites (Bernstein DG, Solti/Chicago, Chailly/Concertgebouw, Sinopoli/Philharmonia, Karajan/Berlin, Eschenbach/Philly). It's fast and Classically restrained...until the end. But that restraint makes the final catastrophe even more chilling. It's downright scary.

I did get Abbado/Berlin for 7 (only 5 cents, can't blame me there, haha!), but I'm stuck on 6. I really want something horribly terrifying or shocking or something- maybe it IS Lenny SONY? (though his DG gets the "one of a kind" sticker)

If you are going to get a Bernstein M6, get the DG. It seems to me it's everything you want: terrifying, shocking But have you considered Solti? That's my desert island Sixth. No one launches the first movement coda with such a bang: the agogic distortion, Solti's slight hesitation, his holding the orchestra in check (lasts only a fraction of a second) before releasing his forces in a pure explosion of joy, is just breathtaking. Almost every other conductor just plows straight into the coda.

But seriously- I get soooo tired of endless amazon review pages just saying BernsteinBernsteinBernstein...

Then go for Solti. I think it's terrific.

Segerstam 6 Jarvi (the strangest and the fastest?)

The strangest M6 is probably Chailly. As slow as Barbirolli in the first movement but zombie-like. Most of the emotion has been drained, leaving nothing but stark grimness. It's like hearing the walking dead 

Sarge

[Jay F]

But have you considered Solti? That's my desert island Sixth. No one launches the first movement coda with such a bang: the agogic distortion, Solti's slight hesitation, his holding the orchestra in check (lasts only a fraction of second) before releasing his forces in a pure explosion of joy, is just breathtaking. Almost every other conductor just plows straight into the coda.

Then go for Solti. I think it's terrific.

Thanks, Sarge. I haven't had Solti's Sixth on CD. I used to love his Fifth and Sixth on LP. So, I just ordered the box set on AM. "Like New" for $36 in the fatboy packaging, which I really prefer.

And thanks to you, too, Snyprrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, for bringing it up.

[Ken B]

Szell's Sixth is one of my Top 3. It's partly nostalgic (it's a live recording and I was in the audience) but mostly because it's so different than my other favorites (Bernstein DG, Solti/Chicago, Chailly/Concertgebouw, Sinopoli/Philharmonia, Karajan/Berlin, Eschenbach/Philly). It's fast and Classically restrained...until the end. But that restraint makes the final catastrophe even more chilling. It's downright scary.

If you are going to get a Bernstein M6, get the DG. It seems to me it's everything you want: terrifying, shocking But have you considered Solti? That's my desert island Sixth. No one launches the first movement coda with such a bang: the agogic distortion, Solti's slight hesitation, his holding the orchestra in check (lasts only a fraction of second) before releasing his forces in a pure explosion of joy, is just breathtaking. Almost every other conductor just plows straight into the coda.


Then go for Solti. I think it's terrific.



The strangest M6 is probably Chailly. As slow as Barbirolli in the first movement but zombie-like. Most of the emotion has been drained, leaving nothing but stark grimness. It's like hearing the walking dead 

Sarge

Chailly is my go to guy for Mahler in general. I begin to suspect he ought to be my go to guy period, since I have yet to hear one weak performance. Pricey most of the time though. 

[Sergeant Rock]

Chailly is my go to guy for Mahler in general.

If I had to choose just one Mahler cycle, I'd choose Chailly too. More hits than misses (only 2 disappoints but not seriously so).

Sarge

[TheGSMoeller]

If I had to choose just one Mahler cycle, I'd choose Chailly too. More hits than misses (only 2 disappoints but not seriously so).

Sarge

What are the misses, Sarge? I've only heard the 8th from the Chailly set, which I own and yes I'm a fan of the 8th. How's the 9th, 4th and 7th? These would be the ones that would interest me.

[Sergeant Rock]

What are the misses, Sarge? I've only heard the 8th from the Chailly set, which I own and yes I'm a fan of the 8th. How's the 9th, 4th and 7th? These would be the ones that would interest me.

Only 2 disappoints me. The "Totenfeier" is, relative to my favorites, understated.

Sarge

[Brahmsian]

What are the misses, Sarge? I've only heard the 8th from the Chailly set, which I own and yes I'm a fan of the 8th. How's the 9th, 4th and 7th? These would be the ones that would interest me.

Tennstedt/LPO studio has apparently, a great performance of the 8th.  I love Tennstedt's Mahler, but unfortunately can't stand the 8th symphony.    I'm still looking for a performance without words, or a reconstructed version that has an orchestral prelude to it?   

[Ken B]

Only 2 disappoints me. The "Totenfeier" is, relative to my favorites, understated.

Sarge

As I recall, it's been a while, yeah that was not as good as some other versions. But it isn't bad.

[snyprrr]

Szell's Sixth is one of my Top 3. It's partly nostalgic (it's a live recording and I was in the audience) but mostly because it's so different than my other favorites (Bernstein DG, Solti/Chicago, Chailly/Concertgebouw, Sinopoli/Philharmonia, Karajan/Berlin, Eschenbach/Philly). It's fast and Classically restrained...until the end. But that restraint makes the final catastrophe even more chilling. It's downright scary.

If you are going to get a Bernstein M6, get the DG. It seems to me it's everything you want: terrifying, shocking But have you considered Solti? That's my desert island Sixth. No one launches the first movement coda with such a bang: the agogic distortion, Solti's slight hesitation, his holding the orchestra in check (lasts only a fraction of a second) before releasing his forces in a pure explosion of joy, is just breathtaking. Almost every other conductor just plows straight into the coda.


Then go for Solti. I think it's terrific.



The strangest M6 is probably Chailly. As slow as Barbirolli in the first movement but zombie-like. Most of the emotion has been drained, leaving nothing but stark grimness. It's like hearing the walking dead 

Sarge

See? Now you've sold me on Chailly for 6. Walking Dead? Grim? YES PLEASE!!! flippin expensive though




The Solti reviews scared me! They definitely said he just massacres the piece from front to back, never letting up. At first I was put off, but then the Abuse side of my mind kicked in and thought the Punishment would be good for me!!

Lenny also gets marks for being slam-bang.

But when you mention Zombies- I'd throw all that Maaadness out the window for some Zombie. Would you say Chailly is, inversely, to the 6th what Klemp is to the 7th? (if not, who's the Klemp/anti-Klemp in the 6th?)

For Prokofiev 5 I NEEDED M.O.R. (I sit up at night thinking, "Sarge called me MOR!")- but, for DSCH 8, or Mahler 6, I want that Sanderling 15/Klemperer 7 treatment- fast or slow, it doesn't matter,- as long as the graveyard is in full view! For Prokofiev 5 I want sheen sheen sheen, but for DSCH8/Mahler6 I want to hear string snapping and brass chocking and percussion death and all manner of grave sounds.

Frankly, I was going to go for Sinopoli in 6 (which I would think would be lush, contradicting my own desires), but I heard a sample of his 2 and the DG sound seemed to have "THAT" DG digital sound that we all complain about (I could be wrong). What's good about Sinopoli?


You had me at "zombie"!!

[Sergeant Rock]

The Solti reviews scared me! They definitely said he just massacres the piece from front to back, never letting up.

Yes, he's unrelenting.

But when you mention Zombies- I'd throw all that Maaadness out the window for some Zombie. Would you say Chailly is, inversely, to the 6th what Klemp is to the 7th? (if not, who's the Klemp/anti-Klemp in the 6th?)

In fact I've suggested that somewhere in these threads: that if Klemp had recorded the Sixth late in his career it would have sounded like Chailly's.

Frankly, I was going to go for Sinopoli in 6 (which I would think would be lush, contradicting my own desires), but I heard a sample of his 2 and the DG sound seemed to have "THAT" DG digital sound that we all complain about (I could be wrong). What's good about Sinopoli?

A monumental, over-the-top Andante...which many hate:

(Sinopoli delivers an Andante that seems to go on for ever, more the hothouse of Wagner's Tristan than the simple song without words of Mahler's maturity. --Tony Dugan)


Sarge

[Ken B]

 Let me toss in a very good word for Abravanel, which I am currently listening to. Radically anti-Bernstein. Clean, swift, structural. Alas the orchestra makes some errors in intonation. But as a reading it's splendid.

[jlaurson]

... but I'm stuck on 6. I really want something horribly terrifying or shocking or something- maybe it IS Lenny SONY? (though his DG gets the "one of a kind" sticker)

What you want is Barbirolli!!! Try to get it in an edition where the Scherzo comes before the Andante. That's not how he recorded it, or wanted it, but the engineers overruled him at the time... and although that's hard to swallow... I think they are right. The effect you want can ONLY be reached if the Andante comes before the finale... that way, dramaturgically, it's STRAIGHT LEFT to the face. HOOKED RIGHT on the smacker. dainty dancing steps to lull you into security... and then SMASHING YOU THREE* TIMES INTO THE GROUND WITH AN IRON FOLDING CHAIR.

(Trying to write in a way you will understand. Caps and excitement and all.  )

Zander II would be an excellent option, too... in better sound than Barbirolli... and a little fleeter but just as brutal.

Mahler Survey No.6 isn't restored yet, I'm afraid... otherwise you might have had something to read there.

Szell is not what you want. Bernstein II more like it.

[snyprrr]

What you want is Barbirolli!!! Try to get it in an edition where the Scherzo comes before the Andante. That's not how he recorded it, or wanted it, but the engineers overruled him at the time... and although that's hard to swallow... I think they are right. The effect you want can ONLY be reached if the Andante comes before the finale... that way, dramaturgically, it's STRAIGHT LEFT to the face. HOOKED RIGHT on the smacker. dainty dancing steps to lull you into security... and then SMASHING YOU THREE* TIMES INTO THE GROUND WITH AN IRON FOLDING CHAIR.

(Trying to write in a way you will understand. Caps and excitement and all.  )

Zander II would be an excellent option, too... in better sound than Barbirolli... and a little fleeter but just as brutal.

Mahler Survey No.6 isn't restored yet, I'm afraid... otherwise you might have had something to read there.

Szell is not what you want. Bernstein II more like it.

I understand!


btw- I got Levine 7 from the library- but- is it too 'beautiful'?

[Drasko]

btw- I got Levine 7 from the library- but- is it too 'beautiful'?

Nobody ever accused Scherchen of being beautiful, though at least some of it is down to orchestra. Try him:

http://www.youtube.com/v/O5c_l87KfFk

Or if that is too rough and ready for you try Gielen.

[André]

Let me toss in a very good word for Abravanel, which I am currently listening to. Radically anti-Bernstein. Clean, swift, structural. Alas the orchestra makes some errors in intonation. But as a reading it's splendid.

Seconded. The Utah Symphony is short in numbers, but they often make points in individuality when pitted against the slicker, bigger ensembles.