Mahler Mania, Rebooted

[Heck148]

Solti/CSO Mahler 3 is very good...terrific playing, of course, tho overall I think I like Levine's better...the trombone solo [Friedman] on Levine/CSO is really outstanding.

[Cato]

That Unicorn issue had horrible sound, certainly in its LP incarnation.  Very odd because it was engineered by Bob Auger who was a favourite with audiophiles (or 'Hi-Fi enthusiasts' as they were known back then  ) but he did always seem to favour a brittle sound.

But I agree with this:

Like some others this was my first brush with Mahler. 
My second was a record which is very rarely mentioned these days - Das Klagende Lied conducted by Boulez/LSO

That recording - like his Gurrelieder on Columbia - is one of the best recordings of that work!  I wore my copy down to nearly nothing!

Jascha Horenstein was always an all-around fave! 0:)

[Mirror Image]

And to be further condradictory, the Solti/LSO M3 is not recommendable. The posthorn movement in particular is just ghastly. I don't know what the hell is going on with that solo. I think they hired a kazoo player 

Sarge

Hah! I don't like any of Solti's Mahler and he's definitely on the bottom of my list. I've never been a big fan of his to begin with though.

[Mirror Image]

I'd appreciate everyone to participate in my Mahler poll (if you can). Thanks!

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,26329.msg1010974.html#new

[violadude]

Mahler has almost always been one of my favorite composers. I'm very familiar with all the symphonies except for #8 and #10 (something I need to change soon) and I pretty much love all of them.

I've always admired the great lengths to which Mahler sought to diversify his music, both from symphony to symphony as well as within each symphony. Each symphony is a completely different animal, from the youthful, Romantic symphony #1, to the lean childlike glitter, mystery and innocent grotesque of Symphony #4, to the bitter reality reflected in Symphony #6, to the transcendent, profound themes presented in DLVDE.

Each symphony seems to contain everything, folk music, elegant song-writing, "nature sounds", simple effective harmonies alongside the most cutting edge tonal complexities of the time, seemingly every instrument and instrumental combination available to a turn of the century composer.

Grandeur, dark, light, sad, angry, playful, nostalgic, cold, intense, other-worldly, mysterious, mystical, innocent, bitter, hesitant...pick an adjective, any adjective, you can find it expressed in a Mahler symphony.

Another thing that had me hooked on Mahler after extended listening was the way he constantly reinvents, or reinterprets, traditional forms. Newcomers to Mahler often complain that his symphonies are formless or meandering. The fact that his symphonies so often come off this way at first, and yet every single movement he wrote is related to a traditional classical form in one way or another, is a testament to the lengths he went to re-configure the old to express the new.

For example, one of the major changes he made to a form like sonata form, is to (almost) never include traditional repetition of material. Structural points in Classical forms that were traditionally more or less the same, whether that be the exposition repeat, the recapitulation, the da capo repeat of a minuet or Scherzo, under Mahler's pen are all completely transformed every time save three exceptions (Symphony #1 1st movement exposition and second movement, symphony #6 1st movement  exposition).  This makes what could be endless drudgery through paint-by-numbers formula writing into an experience that is always engaging, always surprising, always fluid and subject to change. This makes the music fascinating.

As I got into Mahler's symphonies more, I was also very impressed with how Mahler handled thematic unity and transformation. Everything is inter-related, and nothing is wasted. The first time you listen to a piece, you might notice some theme in one place, the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th time you listen to the piece you might notice the theme actually appeared much earlier than you thought (I'm thinking specifically of the 1st movement of symphony #4, the second theme of the second exposition, the sweet calm section right before the development proper,  appears very briefly in the background within the first minute of the movement on most recordings). Every theme is placed strategically, with the grand plan of the entire symphony always in mind. Take symphony #9 the first movement, every single important theme of the movement is presented one after another in a short few seconds. Of course, this first movement has the traditional demarcations of Sonata Form (E D R C) more or less where you would expect them in a 25 minute movement, but strictly from a thematic point of view (not an harmonic one) the first few seconds might as well be the exposition, the rest is just development of those first few themes and it's so masterful.

I love Mahler's orchestration too. I swear there are at least 20 or 30 different sounds that didn't exist in music before Mahler wrote them.

I haven't listened to his music much lately because I know much of it so well. There was a period of time earlier in my life when I was incredibly enchanted with his music, you could say I was in the "honeymoon phase" with my love for his symphonies. During this time, I felt as though lots of other composers wrote music that was good, great even, but somehow Mahler's music was more than just music to me. It was like some indescribable philosophy or something. I still feel that to a certain degree, although as I've expanded my palette that ultra degree of special I felt from Mahler's music has waned a bit. But of course that doesn't mean he wasn't an incredibly unique composer. That's a fact whether anyone feels that special toward his music or not.

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

I really love your post, dude. Much of what you have said are things I've always noticed in his music as well. I remember listening to the opening movement of the 7th one time and discovering such remarkable instrumental combinations of which I can't imagine earlier examples. It's one of the reasons I'm most fascinated by that symphony in particular.

[ritter]

Very nice post, indeed, violadude! And welcome to GMG, btw.

[GioCar]

Thank you for your great post, violadude.
Good to see you over here.

[Mirror Image]

Great post, violadude. Mahler's music is indeed incredibly special and one-of-a-kind. Please keep those posts coming!

[Sergeant Rock]

Regarding SOLTI, my copy of the LSO M2 has a bad edit so the last 20 seconds or so is missing(!) Anyone has that problem or do I just have a bad disc (it is brand new).

My copy is okay. I have "Tthe Originals" (from 2007).

Sarge

[Jay F]

Regarding SOLTI, my copy of the LSO M2 has a bad edit so the last 20 seconds or so is missing(!) Anyone has that problem or do I just have a bad disc (it is brand new).

I have the Originals version, too, and it plays straight through to the end.

I wonder how old your CD player is. One of mine would stop playing CDs that went past a certain point (75 minutes?). Another would make this enormous clacking sound when it got to the end of a too-long CD. Of course, the CD in question is only 71 minutes long, so this probably isn't the issue.

[asin]B00160XIJ8[/asin]

[Mirror Image]

Speaking of the playability of the Solti 2nd on Originals remaster/reissue, my dad owns it and he said it played fine for him.

[ritter]

An interesting bit of memorabilia: The Guardian has reproduced the review it published of the world-première of the Eighth in Munich in 1910:



https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/oct/26/from-the-classical-archive-the-premiere-of-mahler-eighth-symphony-emotional-power-and-uplifting-strength

[PerfectWagnerite]

I have the Originals version, too, and it plays straight through to the end.

I wonder how old your CD player is. One of mine would stop playing CDs that went past a certain point (75 minutes?). Another would make this enormous clacking sound when it got to the end of a too-long CD. Of course, the CD in question is only 71 minutes long, so this probably isn't the issue.

[asin]B00160XIJ8[/asin]

Same Originals version...

CD player plays other long CDs just fine. Could just be a defect. Oh well. Sucks the ending doesn't work.

[aukhawk]

Better than the beginning not working. At least you can have 74 minutes of pleasure before it stops.

[kishnevi]

An interesting bit of memorabilia: The Guardian has reproduced the review it published of the world-première of the Eighth in Munich in 1910:



https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/oct/26/from-the-classical-archive-the-premiere-of-mahler-eighth-symphony-emotional-power-and-uplifting-strength

taking over one hour and thirty minutes to perform

So almost all, if not all, modern performances, are much faster than Mahler's own pacing.

[relm1]

My favorite version of DLVDE has been Bruno Walter/NYPO.  I am currently listening to this:

https://www.lpo.org.uk/recordings-and-gifts/117-cd-mahler-das-lied-von-der-erde.html

It is good but Bruno Walters is so much more musical.  The phrasing is exceptional.  Even Bernstein can't match Walters in terms of musicality.  There is such a sense of longing as if someone understood the subtext.  Yannick Nezet-Seguin might be technical but lacks the more important subtext.  Bernstein takes it as an opera where Walters takes it as poetic.

Has this been topped?

https://youtu.be/1VA7OLh-2ZA?t=3163

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

So almost all, if not all, modern performances, are much faster than Mahler's own pacing.

It's could be that Mahler took an extended break of a few minutes between part I and part II.....I think he did so in another symphony but I can't remember exactly which one (between first and second movements of the 2nd symphony?)

[kishnevi]

It's could be that Mahler took an extended break of a few minutes between part I and part II.....I think he did so in another symphony but I can't remember exactly which one (between first and second movements of the 2nd symphony?)

Yes, in fact he instructed performers to take that break.  Chailly did it in Liepzig DVD performance, stepping off the podium but remaining onstage. Probably other conductors.  And several recordings that are on 2 CDs cite Mahler's instruction to explain why they split the recording at that point. And of course a bunch of recordings just ignore it.

But as far as I know Mahler did not do so with the 8th.

[Mirror Image]

My favorite version of DLVDE has been Bruno Walter/NYPO.  I am currently listening to this:

https://www.lpo.org.uk/recordings-and-gifts/117-cd-mahler-das-lied-von-der-erde.html

It is good but Bruno Walters is so much more musical.  The phrasing is exceptional.  Even Bernstein can't match Walters in terms of musicality.  There is such a sense of longing as if someone understood the subtext.  Yannick Nezet-Seguin might be technical but lacks the more important subtext.  Bernstein takes it as an opera where Walters takes it as poetic.

Has this been topped?

https://youtu.be/1VA7OLh-2ZA?t=3163

These three performances seem to be the standard recommendations for Das Lied von der Erde: Ludwig/Wunderlich/Klemperer, Fischer-Dieskau/King/Bernstein, and Baker/King/Haitink.