Author Topic: Mahler Mania, Rebooted  (Read 584470 times)

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Offline hvbias

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #4800 on: August 16, 2021, 02:51:34 PM »
In general I find the earlier, pioneering Mahler performances more interesting than today's note-perfect, audio-perfect ones. The early recordings have a sense of exploration and intensity to them, and the occasional imperfections and the sense of strain add to the excitement. Today's orchestras are so familiar with Mahler that they can just go through the motions and produce a decent performance.

You can make a great Mahler cycle from recordings made not later than 1970 or so. Here's a thread we did on the subject:

https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,19198.0.html

From this thread I see that F. Charles Adler is one that came up a few times in symphony 3 and some other chap on TalkClassical that tends to have similar tastes as me rated fairly highly as well. I thought I'd heard all the oldies by this point but this was a really nice surprise, a great performance.

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #4801 on: August 16, 2021, 03:22:01 PM »
I have to say I’ve really become rather taken with Chailly’s Mahler, which was criticized by Andre as being ‘faceless’, but yet, he praises Haitink who follows a similar interpretation as Chailly in simply letting the music speak for itself. The wonderful thing about Mahler is there isn’t a ‘right’ way to interpret his music. There’s only our preferences and, for me, there’s room in my collection for Chailly just like there’s room for Haitink, Tennstedt or Bernstein (both cycles are glorious and I’ll never choose between them). Anyway, the standouts, IMHO, of the Chailly set are the 3rd (absolutely first-rate!), 5th and the 9th. I could careless about the 10th since it wasn’t finished by Mahler himself and only the Adagio stands, which is a pretty nice piece on its own without the Cooke or whoever manipulations.

Mahler conductors I don’t like or remain ambivalent about in general: Inbal, Abravanel, Boulez (although his earlier performances on Columbia were good), Gergiev, Vänskä, Gielen, Tilson Thomas, Rattle, Dudamel and Solti (one of the most overrated conductors of all-time for me).
« Last Edit: August 16, 2021, 03:29:56 PM by Mirror Image »
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DavidW

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #4802 on: August 17, 2021, 08:35:42 AM »
What causes you to scratch your head?

Oh I missed this!  Sorry

Some of the recordings on the list I barely remember owning and it is a big blank in my memory instead of some amazing recording for all time to treasure for the rest of my life.

Offline hvbias

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #4803 on: August 22, 2021, 05:56:14 AM »
I revisited MTT/LSO 7th, it is as I remember one of the best performances of this I've ever heard. I listened to the SFS cycle once and wasn't too impressed, but just based off that LSO 7th and being a rather difficult symphony I have to give MTT credit.

Offline Symphonic Addict

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #4804 on: September 15, 2021, 07:51:33 PM »
How realistic he looks like:

Give us something else; give us something new; for Heaven's sake give us something bad, so long as we feel we are alive and active and not just passive admirers of tradition!

Carl Nielsen

Online Jo498

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #4805 on: September 15, 2021, 09:43:36 PM »
Would a red tie not be a bit gaudy? (I seriously don't know)
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline relm1

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #4806 on: September 16, 2021, 04:55:11 AM »
This is my colorization/restoration of him. 

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #4807 on: September 16, 2021, 05:49:50 AM »
Would a red tie not be a bit gaudy? (I seriously don't know)

Yeah, I don’t think Mahler would have worn a red bowtie.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2021, 05:25:01 AM by Mirror Image »
"When a man is in despair, it means that he still believes in something." - Dmitri Shostakovich

Online Jo498

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #4808 on: September 16, 2021, 06:36:05 AM »
The charcoal grey seems more likely for early 1900s than the brown suit but I am by no means a style expert ;)
But it's amazing what digital colorization can do today, looks all very natural.
(When I was a child in the 1970s and early 1980s we only had b/w TV. When on occasion I watched at relatives or friends color TV the colors seemed totally artificial and ugly; they probably were in most 1970s sets but it was of course mostly not being accustomed to the colors.)
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline relm1

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #4809 on: September 21, 2021, 04:40:59 AM »
What is your most recommended recording of No. 5? 

Online Jo498

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #4810 on: September 21, 2021, 08:44:40 AM »
Bernstein/Vienna/DG although the Adagietto is too slow (as often) and it was my first recording 30 years ago, so I am biased. For a dark horse alternative (with a fastish adagietto but slowish tempi elsewhere) Wyn Morris/some London orchestra/Collins?
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline Archaic Torso of Apollo

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #4811 on: September 21, 2021, 09:39:01 AM »
What is your most recommended recording of No. 5?

Chailly/Conc'bouw. After living with it for about 20 years, I still find it near-perfect, and it sounds spectacular.

For an older recording, Kubelik/BRSO/DG.

I find that the 5th may be the Mahler symphony with the most ways to go wrong, and these 2 versions get everything right, in my view.
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

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Offline André

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #4812 on: September 21, 2021, 12:04:00 PM »
The Kubelik BRSO is indeed unimpeachable. Other favourites are Neumann Gewandhaus Orch, Haitink’s COA version and, surprisingly (for me) Dohnanyi Cleveland.

For a slow version I like the Farberman. Morris seems interesting. I’ll check that one out  :)

DavidW

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #4813 on: September 21, 2021, 12:42:57 PM »
Bernstein/Vienna/DG although the Adagietto is too slow

Same.

But I don't think I've heard a fifth I didn't like.  I even like the Zinman that most seem to despise!

Online JBS

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #4814 on: September 21, 2021, 02:03:31 PM »
Recordings not part of a cycle, I'd go for Barshai.

The companion recording of the Tenth (Barshai's own completion) is just as good.

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Offline Archaic Torso of Apollo

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #4815 on: September 21, 2021, 04:26:29 PM »
Recordings not part of a cycle, I'd go for Barshai.

That's a very good one, with a (very dedicated) youth orchestra no less, and great sonics. My only quibble is that the finale is too slow for my taste.
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

Offline Sergeant Rock

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #4816 on: September 28, 2021, 02:08:52 PM »
What is your most recommended recording of No. 5? 

It took me 20+ years and 18 misfires before finally hearing a M5 that gave me what I wanted; a performance that milked the big chorale tune/climax in the second movement as slowly as possible. Even Bernstein let me down. Neumann finally did it to my satisfaction and that somehow opened the flood gates to these marvelous recordings (the first three my top recommendations:

Dohnányi/Cleveland
Neumann/Gewandhaus
Chailly/Concertgebouw

Boulez/Vienna
Stenz/Gürzenich
Kubelik/SOBR (DG)
Inbal/Frankfurt
Solti/Chicago
Haitink/Berlin (Not a general recommendation; it's too slow, too ponderous; an interpretation almost completely devoid of charm, lightness and light. It's like the music has been swallowed by the dark side. Even the Rondo-Finale brings no relief.)

Sarge
« Last Edit: September 28, 2021, 02:13:59 PM by Sergeant Rock »
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Offline SurprisedByBeauty

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #4817 on: September 28, 2021, 11:34:02 PM »

Dohnányi/Cleveland
Neumann/Gewandhaus
Chailly/Concertgebouw

Boulez/Vienna
Stenz/Gürzenich
Kubelik/SOBR (DG)
Inbal/Frankfurt
Solti/Chicago
Haitink/Berlin (Not a general recommendation; it's too slow, too ponderous; an interpretation almost completely devoid of charm, lightness and light. It's like the music has been swallowed by the dark side. Even the Rondo-Finale brings no relief.)

Sarge

My choice, as almost always in Mahler, is the same as Sarge's, only slightly re-shuffled.

https://ionarts.blogspot.com/2013/08/gustav-mahler-symphony-no5-part-1.html
https://ionarts.blogspot.com/2013/08/gustav-mahler-symphony-no5-part-2.html


1. Vaclav Neumann, Leipzig Gewandhaus, Berlin Classics / Brilliant

2. Riccardo Chailly, RCO, Decca

3. Rudolf Barshai, Junge Deutsche Philharmonie, Brilliant

4. Pierre Boulez, WPh, DG

... Markus Stenz, Gürzenich, Oehms

... Dohnányi / Cleveland (got to know this after the survey above)

... Kubelik BRSO

Almost Zweden, LPO (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2009/apr09/Mahler5_Neumann_93278.htm), Bernstein for willful occ. exuberance, Haitink/Berlin for perversion...

Online Jo498

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #4818 on: September 28, 2021, 11:46:52 PM »
It took me 20+ years and 18 misfires before finally hearing a M5 that gave me what I wanted; a performance that milked the big chorale tune/climax in the second movement as slowly as possible.

[...]

Kubelik/SOBR (DG)

Solti/Chicago
I apparently misunderstand your argument because these two, the only two of your list I have, don't take the chorale slowly, unless I am completely mistaken about the passage in question.
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline Sergeant Rock

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #4819 on: September 29, 2021, 05:14:20 AM »
I apparently misunderstand your argument because these two, the only two of your list I have, don't take the chorale slowly, unless I am completely mistaken about the passage in question.

The bit I'm referring to begins at 11:03 in the Kubelik/DG with the climactic passage beginning at 11:51. In  Solti's performance it's 10.54 and 11:35. Solti does speed up as he approaches the climax but then slams on the brakes quite dramatically when he gets there...just what I want.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"