Mahler Mania, Rebooted

[Atriod]

For me I didn't really get into Mahler's 8th until I heard Horenstein live at the Albert Hall on BBC legends.  That is what turned it from like to love.

My favorite performance as well! What do you make of the Antoni Wit recording that Hurwitz said was the best?

I have this Bertini/TMSO in my to hear queue, I like Bertini's EMI cycle recording of it. From what I've heard from ~30 Japanese orchestral Mahler recordings (or romantic music in general) they really love his music, often playing like it's the last performance they're going to give. Inbal's TMSO now my favorite Mahler cycle by a huge margin for a single conductor/orchestra cycle. Many traits of Bernstein's best performances in them.

[DavidW]

My favorite performance as well! What do you make of the Antoni Wit recording that Hurwitz said was the best?

I have this Bertini/TMSO in my to hear queue, I like Bertini's EMI cycle recording of it. From what I've heard from ~30 Japanese orchestral Mahler recordings (or romantic music in general) they really love his music, often playing like it's the last performance they're going to give. Inbal's TMSO now my favorite Mahler cycle by a huge margin for a single conductor/orchestra cycle. Many traits of Bernstein's best performances in them.

I haven't heard Wit.  I have heard the EMI Bertini but not the Tokyo.  So many great M8s to listen to!

[vers la flamme]

Wit/Warsaw is a really good one! I'm a fan of his conducting, and that might be his best recording of anything, that I've heard.

Nagano looks great too. I haven't heard too much of his work but I've liked what I've heard.

Horenstein, I think, was one of Tony Duggan's top picks for that symphony. He seems to rate just about all of Horenstein's Mahler recordings highly. I haven't heard anything from that conductor.

Damn, y'all are making me want to listen to Mahler's 8th again. I kind of burned myself out on it about a month or two back after listening to it every day for a while 

[vers la flamme]

Mahler 8 is my holy grail in finding the best performances because of seeing a concert with Rattle (a top five music memory) which moved the symphony from like to love.

As for best sounding Mahler 8 I don't doubt BIS will take the award, this one also sounds really good. Hurwitz and I seem to differ in what we look for in a performance.

This also looks good...

[Atriod]

This also looks good...

I am trying to get it elevated to cult like status because of the Mormons

[relm1]

I like Dudamel with the combined orchestras of Simon Bolivar and LA Phil.  The first recording, not the second one which was just dull.



Simon Rattle's National Youth Orchestra is very good too.

[ghmath]

Rattle's reading is exquisite IMHO. Specially the last ten minutes.

[vers la flamme]

New reissue of Klemperer's EMI Mahler recordings on the way. Worth a buy if anyone here does not already have them.

[Atriod]

New reissue of Klemperer's EMI Mahler recordings on the way. Worth a buy if anyone here does not already have them.

I've heard these transfers from the Klemperer mega box. They sound very good, definitely better than the Abbey Road ART CDs. Klemperer conducting Symphony 7 is still one I have a hard time getting through.

[DavidW]

Klemperer conducting Symphony 7 is still one I have a hard time getting through.

Yeah but the second is great!

[Atriod]

Yeah but the second is great!

Agree, I think they're all at a very high level of musicianship. That seventh for me lacks enough contrast between the movements, also slow tempi alone doesn't make it reach into the cosmos like Inbal/Czech Philharmonic who takes more conventional tempi.

I have the two Klemperer Archiphon boxes and sadly there is not much Mahler on them, with the second being the most often recorded. Live Klemperer was not uncommonly quite special, with my favorite second from him being the live concert that EMI recorded.

[DavidW]

btw I saw on another forum that the Vanska cycle will be boxed and released this year.  Everything I heard I liked so far (have not tried the 8th yet), except the 10th because... I love it, not just like it.  Probably the finest 10th on record.  Currently both the M8 and M9 are half off on eclassical fyi.

Also while I'm at it I saw that the Nott cycle is on sale on JPC.  I ordered it from Groovesland a couple weeks ago, I hope to receive it sometime this week.  I see Nott as the spiritual successor to Bertini as Vanska is for Boulez.  So I can see both being happy on my shelf.

[Roasted Swan]

I've been listening to the latest reincarnation of Horenstein's Mahler 3 as released by HDTT



The "source" for this is very unusal.  This is not yet another "back to the original master tapes" sort of thing.  Instead - at the original sessions an American engineer Jerry Bruck was allowed to set up an experimental 4 microphone surround sound array which he recorded on a system quite independent from the Bob Auger commercial recording for Unicorn.  For whatever reason these raw session tapes were never edited into a performance until now.  The HDTT team have done - to my ears - a pretty extraordinary job at replicating the original release in terms of takes chosen (the original production notes for the 1st movement(s) were lost) and although I could only listen in stereo not the 4.0 'ideal' for an early 1970's analogue recording the sound is genuinely remarkable.

Hurwitz recently consigned this performance to his mocking pile of "mediocre Mahler" but I still find Horenstein's rather monumental slow-burn approach wholly convincing if not the only/last word in Mahler 3 interpretation.  The LSO plays beautifully and the natural balances achieved with this minimalist array is very impressive.  Perhaps I want this to be a revelation so I'm not wholly objective.  It is not clear why Bruck never pursued this concept further - I assume money/rights prevented a parallel release of the Unicorn original so perhaps the deal was always more theoretical/experimental than commercial - until now....

The Death & Transfiguration squeezed into the 6th and last Mahler session gets the same recording treatment and emerges impressively too as a considerable bonus

[AnotherSpin]

I listened to this performance in another recording that has been available for years. As it seems to me, too slow and tedious. For years I have read about some incredible versions of Mahler by Horenstein. Accordingly, listened to everything I could find. Never understood the reason for the raves, in my opinion they are mostly far-fetched.

[Roasted Swan]

I happened to listen to the Bernstein/DG/Concertgebouw the other day. 



It strikes me that this epitomises Bernstein latter approach to these symphonies; great emotional upheavals and dynamic and tempo extremes.  Of course an orchestra like the Concertgebouw can take this in their stride and it certainly makes for a roller coaster exciting listen.  But in the end it makes for a neurotic and rather extreme experience.  This of course seems to chime with the current preference for Mahler of the boiling emotional confessional cauldron emoting to anyone who will listen.

Ultimately we all respond most to music/interpretations that in some degree align with our own world view and preferred emotional landscape.  Hence when push comes to shove I prefer a measured Horenstein to a hysterical Bernstein (I think his earlier NYPO cycle is superb).  I have not reached that opinion by echoing the far-fetched ravings of others.  I completely get why Bernstein's later approach does appeal to many and I'd be lying to say I don't find certain passages/movements exciting.  There's room for both approaches to be considered valid.

[DavidW]

I completely get why Bernstein's later approach does appeal to many and I'd be lying to say I don't find certain passages/movements exciting.  There's room for both approaches to be considered valid.

Yeah but not in the first (for me)!  If I want a volcanic first I go for Solti.  And then my overall favorite is the understated Kubelik/Bavarian Radio.

[Jo498]

I actually find Bernstein/Concertgebouw on the "too philharmonic" side in the 1st. Sounds big and beautiful, but e.g. not grotesque enough in the 3rd movement (Kubelik and Walter are the best of the dozen I have heard).

[AnotherSpin]

I happened to listen to the Bernstein/DG/Concertgebouw the other day. 



It strikes me that this epitomises Bernstein latter approach to these symphonies; great emotional upheavals and dynamic and tempo extremes.  Of course an orchestra like the Concertgebouw can take this in their stride and it certainly makes for a roller coaster exciting listen.  But in the end it makes for a neurotic and rather extreme experience.  This of course seems to chime with the current preference for Mahler of the boiling emotional confessional cauldron emoting to anyone who will listen.

Ultimately we all respond most to music/interpretations that in some degree align with our own world view and preferred emotional landscape.  Hence when push comes to shove I prefer a measured Horenstein to a hysterical Bernstein (I think his earlier NYPO cycle is superb).  I have not reached that opinion by echoing the far-fetched ravings of others.  I completely get why Bernstein's later approach does appeal to many and I'd be lying to say I don't find certain passages/movements exciting.  There's room for both approaches to be considered valid.

If I have to talk about my feeling about Bernstein's Mahler, I'll seem almost entirely negative, and I don't want to

[calyptorhynchus]

Hurwitz recently consigned this performance to his mocking pile of "mediocre Mahler" ...

I long ago consigned Hurwitz to my pile of mediocre critics.

[DavidW]

I long ago consigned Hurwitz to my pile of mediocre critics.

If you're not insightful or thoughtful, then just be insufferable!