Mahler Mania, Rebooted

[calyptorhynchus]

I prefer to be taken to the abyss on Sunday evenings, set myself up for a cheery work week 

Where I used to work was the Abyss, Mahler 9 was a school outing by comparison.

[LKB]

The Ninth is neither abyssal nor a school outing ( though Putzi is certainly referenced ).

As to what the Ninth actually  is, though, final definitions still elude me despite my deliberating over the course of some forty years.

Perhaps that's merely a hallmark of all great works of art: Transcending the perceptual limits of any one individual. Otoh, it may be that I'm simply incapable of getting my head all the way around the Symphony. I certainly won't discount that possibility, since I'm smart enough to know how dumb l can be. 

[Atriod]

The Ninth is neither abyssal nor a school outing ( though Putzi is certainly referenced ).

As to what the Ninth actually  is, though, final definitions still elude me despite my deliberating over the course of some forty years.

Perhaps that's merely a hallmark of all great works of art: Transcending the perceptual limits of any one individual. Otoh, it may be that I'm simply incapable of getting my head all the way around the Symphony. I certainly won't discount that possibility, since I'm smart enough to know how dumb l can be. 

As you say what we take away is subjective, but I have a hard time hearing it as anything but what I wrote. Mahler writing about his failing heart in the first movement (both literally and figuratively). How sad the final movement is, not just being adagissimo but then changing the tempo to "extremely slowly." I can't remember who said this (Bernstein?) calling the music being suspended, going beyond time/infinity which is not too dissimilar to what I called it, being taken to the abyss.

I easily hear this in performances like Chailly, Kobayashi/Japan Philharmonic (what I posted on another board is like being taken to the event horizon in that last movement in this performance) or Inbal/Tokyo Metropolitan Symphony Orchestra. I have heard some easy, breezy performances that don't seem to get what it's about.

[Herman]

I can't remember who said this (Bernstein?) calling the music being suspended, going beyond time/infinity which is not too dissimilar to what I called it, being taken to the abyss.

I would caution against taking Bernstein's characterisations of Mahler's music too seriously. They're often deeply reductive and yet hard to shake. In one of those 'Bernstein sits down at the piano to explain music' video's he boiled down Tchaikovsky's 4th to "I want it, I want it" as if it were a rock song.

[Atriod]

I would caution against taking Bernstein's characterisations of Mahler's music too seriously. They're often deeply reductive and yet hard to shake. In one of those 'Bernstein sits down at the piano to explain music' video's he boiled down Tchaikovsky's 4th to "I want it, I want it" as if it were a rock song.

Completely ignore what Bernstein said if you have some bone to pick with him and just listen to the music attentively/uninterrupted/not doing anything else, like all great art demands. It's pretty obvious what the general feel of the piece is, the fourth movement is about as literal as Mahler gets. The only real ambiguity I hear is whether he has come to peace with things with the quiet ending or if nothing has been resolved (even the harrowing sixth symphony has a concrete resolution). Either interpretation doesn't detract from my interpretation of the symphony as a whole as taking us to the abyss.

[LKB]

Completely ignore what Bernstein said if you have some bone to pick with him and just listen to the music attentively/uninterrupted/not doing anything else, like all great art demands. It's pretty obvious what the general feel of the piece is, the fourth movement is about as literal as Mahler gets. The only real ambiguity I hear is whether he has come to peace with things with the quiet ending or if nothing has been resolved (even the harrowing sixth symphony has a concrete resolution). Either interpretation doesn't detract from my interpretation of the symphony as a whole as taking us to the abyss.

After a little thought, I'd opine that quoting the phrase from Kindertotenlieder was his way of evoking Maria, and telling her that he'll be with her soon.

From that perspective there is no abyss, only peaceful reunification.

[relm1]

I would caution against taking Bernstein's characterisations of Mahler's music too seriously. They're often deeply reductive and yet hard to shake. In one of those 'Bernstein sits down at the piano to explain music' video's he boiled down Tchaikovsky's 4th to "I want it, I want it" as if it were a rock song.

Oh come on.  That was to an audience of kids where he introduced them to emotions in music as if the music had a yearning quality to it using language they could understand.  He was brilliant at explaining music to kids and you can tell they were fully engaged.  He was so good at this, he later did a reverse version where he introduced the then new phenomenon of The Beatles to classically oriented audiences. 

[Brian]

The Vanska Mahler cycle will finish up in June with the release of No. 3 AND the simultaneous release of a box set of 1-10.

[Atriod]

Found the source of where I thought I was pulling that description from Bernstein. I am in complete agreement with him. I'd consider most conductors necessary for the music but an opinion not much higher than that. The rare exceptions like Bernstein for his exceptional knowledge of music/music theory or Boulez because of his compositions.

The Vanska Mahler cycle will finish up in June with the release of No. 3 AND the simultaneous release of a box set of 1-10.

From the parts that I have heard a consistently very good cycle. My main issue with Mahler is the sheer amount of time you have to dedicate to even just a single symphony. Having to dedicate an hour or more of uninterrupted/eyes closed listening to anything less than the very best performances is burning hours off my life in my finite time.

[DavidW]

The Vanska Mahler cycle will finish up in June with the release of No. 3 AND the simultaneous release of a box set of 1-10.

I have the ninth as a download, but I have been waiting for that box set.  I will probably pick it up.  Highlights for me are 6, 8, 9 and 10 with the 10th being absolutely thrilling.

[Leo K.]

The Vanska Mahler cycle will finish up in June with the release of No. 3 AND the simultaneous release of a box set of 1-10.

This is great news, thanks!

[brewski]

On May 29, to close the Helsinki Philharmonic Orchestra season, conductor Jukka-Pekka Saraste will lead the orchestra, soloists, and five choirs in Mahler's Eighth Symphony. The broadcast is free at this link.

Soloists:
Meagan Miller soprano, Magna Peccatrix
Helena Juntunen soprano, Una Poenitentium
Sanna Iljin soprano, Mater Gloriosa
Elli Vallinoja mezzo-soprano, Mulier Samaritana
Lilli Paasikivi mezzo-soprano, Maria Aegyptiaca
Tommi Hakala baritone, Pater Ecstaticus
Nikolai Schukoff tenor, Doctor Marianus
Tómas Tómasson bass, Pater Profundus

Though I'm much looking forward to the concert, I can't help but be slightly amused by the timing: the start time in Helsinki is 7:00 p.m., which means noon for those of us on the east coast of the U.S.

Mahler 8 at lunchtime!

-Bruce

[LKB]

On May 29, to close the Helsinki Philharmonic Orchestra season, conductor Jukka-Pekka Saraste will lead the orchestra, soloists, and five choirs in Mahler's Eighth Symphony. The broadcast is free at this link.

Soloists:
Meagan Miller soprano, Magna Peccatrix
Helena Juntunen soprano, Una Poenitentium
Sanna Iljin soprano, Mater Gloriosa
Elli Vallinoja mezzo-soprano, Mulier Samaritana
Lilli Paasikivi mezzo-soprano, Maria Aegyptiaca
Tommi Hakala baritone, Pater Ecstaticus
Nikolai Schukoff tenor, Doctor Marianus
Tómas Tómasson bass, Pater Profundus

Though I'm much looking forward to the concert, I can't help but be slightly amused by the timing: the start time in Helsinki is 7:00 p.m., which means noon for those of us on the east coast of the U.S.

Mahler 8 at lunchtime!

-Bruce

Saraste is certainly more than proficient with very large forces, as demonstrated in Berlioz' Requiem from a few years ago, uploaded to YouTube.

How he is specifically in Mahler I've no idea, but at least he'll have a comfort level with M8's scale.

[brewski]

Saraste is certainly more than proficient with very large forces, as demonstrated in Berlioz' Requiem from a few years ago, uploaded to YouTube.

How he is specifically in Mahler I've no idea, but at least he'll have a comfort level with M8's scale.

Thanks, and I will check out that Berlioz at some point!

-Bruce

[Mapman]

On Saturday, May 11, 8:00 pm (EDT), the Detroit Symphony Orchestra will livestream Mahler's Ninth Symphony with conductor Jader Bignamini. You can watch free on the orchestra's website, on their Facebook page, or on their YouTube channel.

-Bruce

A reminder to everyone that the stream is tonight!

I attended last night's performance; I thought it was great. I intentionally have avoided listening to Mahler's 9th for the past year, so that the live performance could make more of an impact. The timbres of the brass and woodwind instruments were varied in a way that reminded me of Gielen's performances of Mahler. The final movement made me start to cry a little bit, so there was sufficient emotional power in the performance. I think this was my favorite concert that I have attended this year (although it might have some competition from Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra, and Strauss' Alpensinfonie coming up in the next month).

Unfortunately, we were seated in the Middle Balcony section which has very limited legroom. Bruce (or anyone else), if you go to Detroit, from my experience the legroom is better on both the main floor and rows DD and back of the Upper Balcony.

[brewski]

A reminder to everyone that the stream is tonight!

I attended last night's performance; I thought it was great. I intentionally have avoided listening to Mahler's 9th for the past year, so that the live performance could make more of an impact. The timbres of the brass and woodwind instruments were varied in a way that reminded me of Gielen's performances of Mahler. The final movement made me start to cry a little bit, so there was sufficient emotional power in the performance. I think this was my favorite concert that I have attended this year (although it might have some competition from Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra, and Strauss' Alpensinfonie coming up in the next month).

Unfortunately, we were seated in the Middle Balcony section which has very limited legroom. Bruce (or anyone else), if you go to Detroit, from my experience the legroom is better on both the main floor and rows DD and back of the Upper Balcony.

Thanks so much for this nice snapshot. At the last minute, I made a Solomonic decision and went to hear Salonen live conducting Sibelius 5, and was really happy about it. The Fifth has rarely sounded so delicious and "oceanic," if that gives some idea. His style was so elegant, and the Philadelphia Orchestra sounded magnificent.

Part of the decision was based on a gamble, that the Detroit livestream will show up as an archive, either on YouTube or on the DSO website. I hope so. There was also another livestream that I gently set aside with the same hope: conductor Louis Langree's final concert with the Cincinnati Symphony. Too much stuff to listen to, which of course is a great problem to have.

Good for you for holding off on hearing the Mahler until the concert, which might be very difficult for many of us. And tears being shed speaks very highly of both Bignamini and of the orchestra! The upcoming concerts, though, wow. I would go to both of those. And thank you for the seating advisory. I don't know when I will get to Detroit, but surely it will be "when," not "if."

-Bruce

[Wanderer]

A wise decision. As far as I'm concerned, when the choice is between a live concert and a recording/broadcast, is there really a dilemma? 

[Mapman]

The DSO livestream is still available on YouTube. They typically take it down shortly after the concert, so I'm not sure how long it will be up. (It will likely be posted to the DSO website eventually, but it could take a couple months.)