Mahler Mania, Rebooted

[Valentino]

Re. the Gothenburg (and thanks for the link): Mahler wrote the 1st mvt exposition to be repeated, no?

[brewski]

Re. the Gothenburg (and thanks for the link): Mahler wrote the 1st mvt exposition to be repeated, no?

Most welcome. And I do not know; perhaps someone else does.

[LKB]

Re. the Gothenburg (and thanks for the link): Mahler wrote the 1st mvt exposition to be repeated, no?

While it's been a while since I've reviewed its history, I'm quite certain that there are no repeats anywhere in the final, revised version of the Resurrection, and am reasonably sure ( though not 100% certain ) that there never were.

[Madiel]

The exposition is in a sense repeated, but it's not a literal repeat.

[Valentino]

Thanks. In the meantime I found that written elsewere.
Right now I'm undecided ordering the M2 Abbado Chicago on DG Original Source series LP. I'm one of those fools according to Hurwitz.

[DavidW]

Thanks. In the meantime I found that written elsewere.
Right now I'm undecided ordering the M2 Abbado Chicago on DG Original Source series LP. I'm one of those fools according to Hurwitz.

What are you talking about? Does he not like Abbado/Chicago? Or does he not like vinyl? Please don't assume we all eagerly follow his every word and get what you're talking about. I never watch his channel, and I haven't been to Classics Today in years.

[Valentino]

He had a rant recently about audiophile reissues on LP.

[DavidW]

He had a rant recently about audiophile reissues on LP.

Oh, I thought he was format agnostic.

[MishaK]

He had a rant recently about audiophile reissues on LP.

Oh, please... stop listening to that jaded windbag and enjoy what you enjoy. Music exists to give you joy. (And I say that as someone who doesn't care one bit about LPs.)

[Madiel]

Yeah. Maybe people should listen to what Hurwitz actually said instead of playing a whispering game about what he supposedly said.

I mean in his 2nd video on this, in response to people frothing at the mouth because he said there is a niche market where people were prepared to pay a lot for vinyl, he almost literally says "enjoy what you enjoy" at one point. EDIT: In fact at a point near the end he actually says "make yourself happy".

So it's really funny to be at the point where the response is effectively "don't listen to that windbag, just go and do... exactly what that windbag actually said".

 If you want to spend your money on a deluxe product, knock yourself out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yst9UHk1a8I

[Roasted Swan]

Yeah. Maybe people should listen to what Hurwitz actually said instead of playing a whispering game about what he supposedly said.

I mean in his 2nd video on this, in response to people frothing at the mouth because he said there is a niche market where people were prepared to pay a lot for vinyl, he almost literally says "enjoy what you enjoy" at one point. EDIT: In fact at a point near the end he actually says "make yourself happy".

So it's really funny to be at the point where the response is effectively "don't listen to that windbag, just go and do... exactly what that windbag actually said".

 If you want to spend your money on a deluxe product, knock yourself out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yst9UHk1a8I

Fair points all - but the manner/tone of how he says it drips with scorn.  Expressed in the "by all means disagree with me if you are an idiot" school of debate.

[Madiel]

Fair points all - but the manner/tone of how he says it drips with scorn.  Expressed in the "by all means disagree with me if you are an idiot" school of debate.

Oh yes, he doesn't gain points for style - on pretty much any subject. To the extent that I do listen to him (and I certainly don't watch every video) it's because there's substance.

[MishaK]

he almost literally says "enjoy what you enjoy" at one point. EDIT: In fact at a point near the end he actually says "make yourself happy".

Except that he's a big fat hypocrite. He says that frequently in his videos. But when you dare disagree with him and like something he dislikes/dislike something he likes in the comment section or elsewhere, he gest super nasty and judgmental real fast and censors people. Happened to both me and a friend of mine. So take what he says with a grain of salt. He desperately wants to seem reasonable.

Fair points all - but the manner/tone of how he says it drips with scorn.  Expressed in the "by all means disagree with me if you are an idiot" school of debate.

Exactly.

[Der lächelnde Schatten]

I've made a few suggestions to Hurwitz in what I believe would improve his videos and both of the posts I made on two different videos were taken down and then he just ended up banning me altogether for reasons that are unknown to me.

Honestly, I wasn't even being insulting or trying to be a jerk to him, it was just some general statements about the use of graphics and things that could spice up his videos. I mean it's basically just a guy sitting in front of a camera flailing his arms about and that's it. If you watch his earlier videos, they're much better, because he's calm and more laid back, which comes over better or, at least, for this viewer it does.

I stopped watching his videos years ago, because it seems everything he posts is the best this or the greatest that and, for me, this is just incredibly boring and uninformative.

[MishaK]

Yes, same here. I found the videos fun early in the pandemic. But I had a similar experience trying to just converse with him in a non-confrontational way, which somehow ticked him off anyway. I haven't watched his stuff since.

[Madiel]

I maintain the view that if you want to know what Hurwitz says, you need to actually watch the videos.

And as already stated, I agree his style his lousy.

Whether or not he MEANS what he says is a different question. I will note, though, that having watched the first of the 2 videos about these expensive LPs it seems pretty clear to me he was primarily thinking about the record companies and what they're trying to sell (the same recording reformatted 20 ways over the decades), not the customers and what they are willing to buy. The stuff that people objected to was pretty much the sort of off-hand side-swipe that he throws in all the time. And taking those seriously is probably a mistake.

The main issue re the LP question seems to me not so much whether people are allowed to listen to super high quality expensive LPs if they want to, but that some people act as if anyone else who is NOT listening to super high quality expensive LPs is listening to music wrongly. People want to "defend" LP listening on the basis that it's objectively better rather than treating it as a subjective preference based on the weight that an individual places on various factors. Including but not limited to sound quality and cost.

And I think I'll leave it there, except to note that history has sadly failed to leave us much information on Mahler's preferred hifi setup.

[Valentino]

Oh, please... stop listening to that jaded windbag and enjoy what you enjoy. Music exists to give you joy. (And I say that as someone who doesn't care one bit about LPs.)

No need to Oh, please...
I generally don't waste time on Youtube talking heads videos*. Hurwitz is a person with knowledge who writes well (sometimes, to my amusement, I read that he likes recordings I like myself) but he doesn't have a radio voice, nor a tv face.

*I'd like to read "The Mahler Hour", but sadly that's just talking heads videos too.

...

On to something of real interest: Tonight ein Vollabend with a couple of friends. Main event Mahler 3 with the Oslo Philharmonic conducted by Jukka-Pekka Saraste.
https://ofo.no/no/konserter/2025-03-27/mahlers-tredje-symfoni

[Roasted Swan]

I maintain the view that if you want to know what Hurwitz says, you need to actually watch the videos.

And as already stated, I agree his style his lousy.

Whether or not he MEANS what he says is a different question. I will note, though, that having watched the first of the 2 videos about these expensive LPs it seems pretty clear to me he was primarily thinking about the record companies and what they're trying to sell (the same recording reformatted 20 ways over the decades), not the customers and what they are willing to buy. The stuff that people objected to was pretty much the sort of off-hand side-swipe that he throws in all the time. And taking those seriously is probably a mistake.

The main issue re the LP question seems to me not so much whether people are allowed to listen to super high quality expensive LPs if they want to, but that some people act as if anyone else who is NOT listening to super high quality expensive LPs is listening to music wrongly. People want to "defend" LP listening on the basis that it's objectively better rather than treating it as a subjective preference based on the weight that an individual places on various factors. Including but not limited to sound quality and cost.

And I think I'll leave it there, except to note that history has sadly failed to leave us much information on Mahler's preferred hifi setup.

thankyou for the first good chuckle of the day

[LKB]

I maintain the view that if you want to know what Hurwitz says, you need to actually watch the videos.

And as already stated, I agree his style his lousy.

Whether or not he MEANS what he says is a different question. I will note, though, that having watched the first of the 2 videos about these expensive LPs it seems pretty clear to me he was primarily thinking about the record companies and what they're trying to sell (the same recording reformatted 20 ways over the decades), not the customers and what they are willing to buy. The stuff that people objected to was pretty much the sort of off-hand side-swipe that he throws in all the time. And taking those seriously is probably a mistake.

The main issue re the LP question seems to me not so much whether people are allowed to listen to super high quality expensive LPs if they want to, but that some people act as if anyone else who is NOT listening to super high quality expensive LPs is listening to music wrongly. People want to "defend" LP listening on the basis that it's objectively better rather than treating it as a subjective preference based on the weight that an individual places on various factors. Including but not limited to sound quality and cost.

And I think I'll leave it there, except to note that history has sadly failed to leave us much information on Mahler's preferred hifi setup.

Not quite, here is one of Mahler's preferred hifi setups:

https://mahlerfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/1910GM130.JPG

After all, there's no higher fidelity than being there. 

[AnotherSpin]

I maintain the view that if you want to know what Hurwitz says, you need to actually watch the videos.

And as already stated, I agree his style his lousy.

Whether or not he MEANS what he says is a different question. I will note, though, that having watched the first of the 2 videos about these expensive LPs it seems pretty clear to me he was primarily thinking about the record companies and what they're trying to sell (the same recording reformatted 20 ways over the decades), not the customers and what they are willing to buy. The stuff that people objected to was pretty much the sort of off-hand side-swipe that he throws in all the time. And taking those seriously is probably a mistake.

The main issue re the LP question seems to me not so much whether people are allowed to listen to super high quality expensive LPs if they want to, but that some people act as if anyone else who is NOT listening to super high quality expensive LPs is listening to music wrongly. People want to "defend" LP listening on the basis that it's objectively better rather than treating it as a subjective preference based on the weight that an individual places on various factors. Including but not limited to sound quality and cost.

And I think I'll leave it there, except to note that history has sadly failed to leave us much information on Mahler's preferred hifi setup.

The sentence about Mahler's hi-fi setup is a weak attempt at humor. It's a pointless historical aside that doesn't add anything meaningful to the discussion. If you're gonna critique audiophile elitism, stick to the point and avoid silly tangents.

Of course, there's little point in explaining the joys of skiing to someone who's never seen snow — but still, I believe there are a few arguments in favor of listening to classical music on high-quality audio equipment, vinyl included:

1. Emotional Impact - premium sound systems reveal the full emotional depth of classical music, capturing nuances and drama often lost on basic setups - recreating the feeling of a live concert.

2. Clarity of Complex Soundscapes - they faithfully reproduce intricate arrangements, dynamic shifts, and subtle details, allowing listeners to fully appreciate the music's structure and tension.

3. Immersive Experience - high-end systems minimize distortion and offer rich, lifelike sound, creating the sensation of being in the room with the orchestra or soloist.

4. Respect for Artistic Vision - superior audio preserves the composer's and performers' intent, ensuring that classical works are heard as they were meant to be - not as background noise.

5. Cultural Sophistication - such systems enhance the sense of refinement associated with classical music, adding an element of luxury to the listening experience.