Mahler Mania, Rebooted

[PSmith08]

I'm glad that "Mahler Mania" is back, now has anyone heard of this recording?

http://www.farao-classics.de/english/catalogue/mahler3-e.html

Yeah, it's right above Janowski's Ring on my bookshelf. It's OK. I prefer Boulez or Chailly, all things considered.

[Symphonien]

Has anyone heard the Boulez 8th yet?

[Daedalus]

Hello all, I thought I better announce myself to this thread as a recently confirmed Mahlerite 

While trying to avoid repeating the information I put in my introductions thread, I just thought I would post some information about how I got into Mahler.

I am a 25 year old postgraduate literature student living in Hertfordshire, just north of London, in the UK. I have been listening to classical music for approximately one year - I am still very much a novice. I fell in love with Mahler symphonies 1 and 5 early on in my listening career - I was especially touched by the incredible orchestral colours, and the tempestuous percussion and brass in the fifth - and I then decided to to create a little project for myself to work through the Gustav Mahler symphonies and read in-depth about his life. I began to listen to the symphonies, starting at the beginning with Symphony no.1, listening to each piece somewhere between 7 and 10 times until it had 'sunk in', i.e. until I felt I had appreciated it. This was last summer and so far I have reached the eighth symphony. I also intend to listen to the songs after finishing the symphonies - I've probably done it the wrong way around as I am told that the songs inform the symphonies to an extent. Having listened to some of Des Knaben Wunderhorn, I certainly see the links to the first 4 symphonies!

I have found the David Hurwitz Unlocking the Masters books to be a wonderful aid to my listening - his Mahler symphonies book is terrific for a beginner. I have also read about Mahler in The Rough Guide to Classic Music, Michael Steinberg's The Symphony and Schonberg's Lives of the Great Composers. I read Mahler His Life Work and World by K. & H. Blaukopf, which is another fantastic way of finding out about Mahler's life.

I have been on a fantastic journey thus far. I particularly love the first three symphonies, and numbers five and six.  I have been slowly working through each piece, savouring every note and immersing myself in the world of Mahler.

I am also trying to see the Mahler symphonies performed by live orchestras in the future. This year, already, I have seen the London Symphony Orchestra conducted by Valery Gergiev perform Symphony no. 1, which was fantastic. I have also have tickets to see Gergiev and the LSO perform Mahler's 2nd, 7th and 9th symphonies later this year. I can't wait!

Incidentally, BBC Radio Three is going to be showcasing some of Gergiev's Mahler cycle this week on Performance on Three. Indeed, yesterday was the first symphony performance that I attended a couple of weeks ago (available for listening on the BBC Three website), tonight the performance will be of Mahler's third, Wednesday is Mahler's fourth and Thursday is Mahler's sixth. Well worth catching, if you have DAB or can access it through the internet.

Yours Faithfully,
D.

[knight66]

Great to hear from you. I hope you enjoy it here. I am also in England. The Gergiev concerts ought to be a must see. I don't get to see as many concerts as I might. This year I will try to do better, no excuse really.

Mahler is a particular favourite of mine and I have not grown tired of his music in over 30 years of listening.

Mike

[paulb]

Great to hear from you. I hope you enjoy it here. I am also in England. The Gergiev concerts ought to be a must see. I don't get to see as many concerts as I might. This year I will try to do better, no excuse really.

Mahler is a particular favourite of mine and I have not grown tired of his music in over 30 years of listening.

Mike

Mike i detect a  bit of disingenious in your "not in 30 yrs". Don't you think its time to move on?
Let me ask you, what do you think about Berg, Schonberg, Webern? as compared to mahler?
Personally i find more excitment and interest  in Webern's short works in  chamber for soprano/piano than a  1.5 hour Mahler sym.

[knight66]

I listen to lots of music, but I still get most pleasure from some of the less modern composers. I could list the living ones and recent dead, but to no real point. I do listen to both Berg and Schoenberg, but not all that often. The point I was making was that there is plenty in Mahler, as in many other composers, to keep someome interested for many years.

Mike

[Bonehelm]

What's everyon'e favorite "Resurrection"? Mine's the late Bernstein DG one...so stunning, overwhelming, breath-taking, awe-inspiring...

[Haffner]

What's everyon'e favorite "Resurrection"? Mine's the late Bernstein DG one...so stunning, overwhelming, breath-taking, awe-inspiring...

The Klemperer.

[Daedalus]

Another vote for the Klemperer - I also like the Berstein though 

I can't believe how good the ending to the second symphony is, especially the episode with the off-stage trumpet calls etc. The build up is wonderful. Spine-tinglingly good 

I'm going to see Gergiev and the LSO perform it at the Barbican in March and I'm curious to see if they can pull it off.

[Sergeant Rock]

What's everyon'e favorite "Resurrection"? Mine's the late Bernstein DG one...so stunning, overwhelming, breath-taking, awe-inspiring...

Below are the Resurrections I own. My desert island trio are highlighted. Coincidentally, they're all with the Wiener Philharmoniker. Kaplan simply gets everything right (the result of long years of exclusive study and conducting of this symphony). Maazel gets everything wrong. He's too slow with tempos pulled like taffy; ultra interventionist to an extent even Lenny didn't dare. Perverse it may be but I find it a stunning, fascinating performance. Boulez makes the symphony sound like part of the 20th century instead of the 19th.

Special jury prize goes to an underdog: Slatkin and St.Louis. Telarc's sonics are stunning. The concluding pages have never sounded better with clearly differentiated chorus and orchestra, a prominent organ, percussion, and bells that sound like real church bells, not anvils. Kathleen Battle and the veteran Maureen Forrester (heard her thirty-five years ago in Cleveland when Ormandy conducted the Resurrection) are my favorite soloists.

I like Bernstein's DG performance too. I almost love it...but I think he saps the energy out of the choral peroration with a tempo that is just too slow. He loses the rhythmic thrust and robs the music of its emotion. I'm with Lenny all the way...up until that point just before the end when things, to my ears, fall apart.

BERNSTEIN/LSO
BERNSTEIN/NY PHIL (SONY)
BERNSTEIN/NY PHIL (DG)
SINOPOLI/PHILHARMONIA
KAPLAN/LSO
KAPLAN/WP
WALTER/COLUMBIA SO
SEGERSTAM/DANISH NAT RADIO
BOULEZ/WP
BERTINI/KÖLNER RSO
MAAZEL/WP
SLATKIN/ST LOUIS
TENNSTEDT/LPO
SOLTI/LSO
NEUMANN/CZECH PHIL
LEVI/ATLANTA
FRIED/BERLINER STAATSKAPELLE
KLEMPERER/PHILHARMONIA
MEHTA/WP
HAITINK/CONCERTGEBOUW

Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

Hello all, I thought I better announce myself to this thread as a recently confirmed Mahlerite 

Welcome, Daedalus. It's always good to have another Mahlerite join the forum (especially since we've lost a few prominent members like Mahler Titan and Mahlered).

Sarge

[Cato]

Has anyone heard the Boulez 8th yet?

No, I did not realize it was out!  Looks like that will be my Father's Day present from somebody!

On the "Resurrection" list: RCA, in the early 1970's, had a great recording with Eugene Ormandy and the Philadelphia Orchestra, which rattled the heavens.  Amazon does not list this anywhere.

Today I would also choose Boulez on DGG, along with the Kubelik on DGG: in the latter I recall the singing as top-rate and the excitement in the finale is rarely matched.

[Sergeant Rock]

Mike i detect a  bit of disingenious in your "not in 30 yrs". Don't you think its time to move on?
Let me ask you, what do you think about Berg, Schonberg, Webern? as compared to mahler?
Personally i find more excitment and interest  in Webern's short works in  chamber for soprano/piano than a  1.5 hour Mahler sym.

Well I believe Mike is not being disingenuous. In my case it's been over forty years with no loss of interest in Mahler's music. How can one lose interest? To reference a famous Mahler quote, his music contains the entire world. It's complex and contains every human emotion (not just bitterness, despair and pained stoicism like Pettersson's). I also love the composers you love. I've been listening to Pettersson since the early 70s and own every work that's been recorded. I bought my first Second Viennese School recording in 1966 when I was 17 . My collection contains much Schnittke. I'm familar with the composers you love the most and I have a hard time imagining their music without Mahler's example and lead. I believe Mahler was the beginning of the 20th century, the beginning of our modern world, not the culmination of the old Romantic century. He's as relevant today, perhaps more relevant, than he was a hundred years ago.

Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

On the "Resurrection" list: RCA, in the early 1970's, had a great recording with Eugene Ormandy and the Philadelphia Orchestra, which rattled the heavens.

I believe you. I wish there were a recording of Ormandy's Cleveland Orchestra performance. It was overwhelming...at least in memory. Bernstein conducted a Resurrection in Cleveland too. 1970. Unfortunately I was not home then but was in far off climes keeping the world safe from the Red Threat. 

Sarge

[Bonehelm]

Below are the Resurrections I own. My desert island trio are highlighted. Coincidentally, they're all with the Wiener Philharmoniker. Kaplan simply gets everything right (the result of long years of exclusive study and conducting of this symphony). Maazel gets everything wrong. He's too slow with tempos pulled like taffy; ultra interventionist to an extent even Lenny didn't dare. Perverse it may be but I find it a stunning, fascinating performance. Boulez makes the symphony sound like part of the 20th century instead of the 19th.

Special jury prize goes to an underdog: Slatkin and St.Louis. Telarc's sonics are stunning. The concluding pages have never sounded better with clearly differentiated chorus and orchestra, a prominent organ, percussion, and bells that sound like real church bells, not anvils. Kathleen Battle and the veteran Maureen Forrester (heard her thirty-five years ago in Cleveland when Ormandy conducted the Resurrection) are my favorite soloists.

I like Bernstein's DG performance too. I almost love it...but I think he saps the energy out of the choral peroration with a tempo that is just too slow. He loses the rhythmic thrust and robs the music of its emotion. I'm with Lenny all the way...up until that point just before the end when things, to my ears, fall apart.

BERNSTEIN/LSO
BERNSTEIN/NY PHIL (SONY)
BERNSTEIN/NY PHIL (DG)
SINOPOLI/PHILHARMONIA
KAPLAN/LSO
KAPLAN/WP
WALTER/COLUMBIA SO
SEGERSTAM/DANISH NAT RADIO
BOULEZ/WP
BERTINI/KÖLNER RSO
MAAZEL/WP
SLATKIN/ST LOUIS
TENNSTEDT/LPO
SOLTI/LSO
NEUMANN/CZECH PHIL
LEVI/ATLANTA
FRIED/BERLINER STAATSKAPELLE
KLEMPERER/PHILHARMONIA
MEHTA/WP
HAITINK/CONCERTGEBOUW

Sarge

Thanks for sharing with us your list, Sarge. I have almost all of those, except for Fried/berliner staatskapelle and the Neumann/CPO. Are they rare? I don't hear them being talked about much.

[Sergeant Rock]

Thanks for sharing with us your list, Sarge. I have almost all of those, except for Fried/berliner staatskapelle and the Neumann/CPO. Are they rare? I don't hear them being talked about much.

Other than a few offers from Amazon sellers, I believe the Neumann is only available now as part of this box set:



The Oskar Fried Resurrection is an important historical document, being the first complete recording of any Mahler symphony (1924). The sound quality of this acoustic recording is ghastly though; it requires tolerance and imagination to fill in the blanks. It's available from several sources, including this box of historical performances (Mengelberg 4, Walter 5, 9, Das Lied, etc) and Naxos:





Sarge

[longears]

Has anyone heard the Boulez 8th yet?

Yes, but I'm not ready to offer an opinion.  I only recently bought it and have heard it once, with divided attention due to several interruptions.  The 8th is the only Mahler symphony that I've not yet learned to enjoy...however, my wife, who usually doesn't care for Mahler at all, said that she thought it was beautiful and liked it very much! 

[rubio]

It's available from several sources, including this box of historical performances (Mengelberg 4, Walter 5, 9, Das Lied, etc) and Naxos:



Sarge

I noted that you thought the sound of the Mengelberg 4 in this box set was quite OK. Have you heard any other transfers of this recording so you've had the chance to compare? I really like that perfomance and Jo Vincent's voice.

[Sergeant Rock]

I noted that you thought the sound of the Mengelberg 4 in this box set was quite OK. Have you heard any other transfers of this recording so you've had the chance to compare? I really like that perfomance and Jo Vincent's voice.

I've only heard the Walter Das Lied, Fried 2 and Mengelberg 4 so far. I'll try to hear the rest soon. I'll post my impressions here.

Sarge

[Symphonien]

Yes, but I'm not ready to offer an opinion.  I only recently bought it and have heard it once, with divided attention due to several interruptions.  The 8th is the only Mahler symphony that I've not yet learned to enjoy...however, my wife, who usually doesn't care for Mahler at all, said that she thought it was beautiful and liked it very much! 

Yes, I'm not a big fan of the 8th yet either but am hoping that if it's a good recording, the Boulez may change my mind.

By the way, does anyone know if they're planning to release Boulez's Mahler in a box set in the near future? I don't have any of the individual releases yet and am wondering if it would be worth waiting for this or not?