Mahler Mania, Rebooted

[Daverz]

How bad does the Ančerl Gold release sound? Asking because there's a local record store that has it for I think $3 and I was thinking of driving over there to buy it today.

Sounds good to me, but I haven't heard the older "postage stamp" version.  I'll note that the latter can be streamed on Qobuz:

https://open.qobuz.com/album/ga6sbhlf8036b

[bhodges]

Listening live to the end of Mahler 2 with Simon Rattle and the LSO on BBC Radio 3. (The concert will be broadcast again on Sunday, 28 August.)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_three

https://lso.co.uk/whats-on/icalrepeat.detail/2022/08/24/2341/-/bbc-proms-2022-mahler-2.html

--Bruce

[vandermolen]

I purchased this thinking that it was this month's Gramophone. It was not. It is a Mahler special (I should have checked the price) 

[LKB]

I purchased this thinking that it was this month's Gramophone. It was not. It is a Mahler special (I should have checked the price) 

I hope you're not too annoyed. For my part, I'd be happy to purchase it by mistake, and will probably seek it out.

[vandermolen]

I hope you're not too annoyed. For my part, I'd be happy to purchase it by mistake, and will probably seek it out.

No, I'm fine with it - just that it's about twice the price of Gramophone. I'm sure that I'll enjoy reading it.

[Leo K.]

I have to say I'm really loving the Osmo Vanska Mahler cycle on BIS. The M6 was revelatory to my ears. The M7 is amazing with it's delicacy and colors - a whole different way of hearing it. I'm hearing amazing details I've never heard before in the M2, M4, and M5. There are nice sharp attacks on the beats of various phrases - played with élan!

[LKB]

The autograph score of Mahler's Symphony No. 2 has been donated to... Cleveland.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/27/arts/music/mahler-resurrection-symphony-manuscript-cleveland-orchestra.html#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16643398988686&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2022%2F09%2F27%2Farts%2Fmusic%2Fmahler-resurrection-symphony-manuscript-cleveland-orchestra.html

[staxomega]

The autograph score of Mahler's Symphony No. 2 has been donated to... Cleveland.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/27/arts/music/mahler-resurrection-symphony-manuscript-cleveland-orchestra.html#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16643398988686&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2022%2F09%2F27%2Farts%2Fmusic%2Fmahler-resurrection-symphony-manuscript-cleveland-orchestra.html

I was under the impression the Kaplan Foundation owned the autograph score, I can't read the article since it's paywalled, the blurb says previous owner was "anonymous." Doing some Google searches brings up an incomplete provenance: https://mahlerfoundation.org/mahler/compositions/symphony-no-2/symphony-no-2-manuscript/

Edit: Kaplan Foundation auctioned it after Gilbert Kaplan's death, and the purchaser was Herbert G. Kloiber who donated it to Cleveland. https://www.broadwayworld.com/cleveland/article/The-Cleveland-Orchestra-Receives-Gift-Of-The-Autograph-Manuscript-Of-Gustav-Mahlers-Symphony-No-2-20220927

[vers la flamme]

Wow, Seiji Ozawa's Mahler is stunning—or at least the two discs I have, the 2nd with the Saito Kinen and the 8th in Boston, are. I wonder why he's not more highly regarded as a Mahler conductor.

[LKB]

I've always had a great deal of respect for Ozawa. Back in the '70's when WGBH was producing the Evening at Symphony broadcasts l would dutifully plunk myself down in front of our big old RCA TV, and prepare for the ensuing bliss. 😀

Along with Bernstein and Mehta, he introduced me to Mahler via his interpretation of Symphony No. 1, and he introduced me to Berlioz as well.

Ozawa may not be spoken of with the same reverence as other conductors, but in his work with Japanese musicians and his willingness to learn through the decades, he is more than worthy, imho.

[Leo K.]

Wow, Seiji Ozawa's Mahler is stunning—or at least the two discs I have, the 2nd with the Saito Kinen and the 8th in Boston, are. I wonder why he's not more highly regarded as a Mahler conductor.

I agree, he seems to be underrated accept I know many Mahlerians who love his Mahler, especially the M3 and M9. Great recordings there.

[Mapman]

This weekend, I saw my university's orchestra perform Mahler 1. It was a good student performance, although the tempi all seemed a bit relaxed.

In the program notes, the author claims that Mahler quotes Wagner's Parsifal in the first symphony. Does anyone know where that is?

[relm1]

I agree, he seems to be underrated accept I know many Mahlerians who love his Mahler, especially the M3 and M9. Great recordings there.

I can't say I've listened to Ozawa's interpretations of Mahler so added to my listening list!

[krummholz]

This weekend, I saw my university's orchestra perform Mahler 1. It was a good student performance, although the tempi all seemed a bit relaxed.

In the program notes, the author claims that Mahler quotes Wagner's Parsifal in the first symphony. Does anyone know where that is?

Probably the theme in the last movement that first appears in C major. The first three notes - G, A, C - are (transposed) one of the principal motifs from Parsifal (might be the "Grail" motif? not sure).

Edit: not sure if this YouTube link will work, but here's the full motif as it appears in Parsifal (in A-flat in this example):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHOIT83H4AA

[Mapman]

Probably the theme in the last movement that first appears in C major. The first three notes - G, A, C - are (transposed) one of the principal motifs from Parsifal (might be the "Grail" motif? not sure).

Edit: not sure if this YouTube link will work, but here's the full motif as it appears in Parsifal (in A-flat in this example):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHOIT83H4AA

That is almost definitely it! Here's a link to where the theme appears in the trumpets near the end of the last movement of Mahler's first.
https://youtu.be/ypClfhEwwCw?t=3235

[relm1]

Mahler was clearly impacted by Wagner.  Take a look at the concerts he programmed for the NY Phil:  Here are all NY Phil concerts that Mahler conducted.  If you click the blue icon that looks like a book, it will bring a scan of each program booklet.

https://archives.nyphil.org/performancehistory/#artistprogram?npp:ConductorID,npp:SoloistsID=2236|false|false&contextParam=art:ArtistName/Mahler, Gustav

Aside from his own works, composers that keep appearing were:

Wagner
Wagner
R. Strauss
Wagner
Weber
Wagner
Wagner
Wagner
Beethoven
Wagner
Wagner
Wagner
Wagner

[Mirror Image]

I purchased this thinking that it was this month's Gramophone. It was not. It is a Mahler special (I should have checked the price) 

Thanks for this alert, Jeffrey. I just bought this special issue. Can't wait to dig through it --- my love of Mahler has grown tremendously over 13 years. In fact, I don't think I could imagine my life without his music. Works like Das Lied von der Erde, Symphonies Nos. 2, 3, 5, 6 & 9 and the song cycles Rückert-Lieder and Kindertotenlieder are desert island works for me.

[krummholz]

Mahler was clearly impacted by Wagner.  Take a look at the concerts he programmed for the NY Phil:  Here are all NY Phil concerts that Mahler conducted.  If you click the blue icon that looks like a book, it will bring a scan of each program booklet.

https://archives.nyphil.org/performancehistory/#artistprogram?npp:ConductorID,npp:SoloistsID=2236|false|false&contextParam=art:ArtistName/Mahler, Gustav

Aside from his own works, composers that keep appearing were:

Wagner
Wagner
R. Strauss
Wagner
Weber
Wagner
Wagner
Wagner
Beethoven
Wagner
Wagner
Wagner
Wagner

And reportedly, in at least one case he programmed a Wagner work, the Die Meistersinger prelude, along with his own, explicitly to draw attention to the close resemblance between the main theme of the Wagner and that of the finale of his 7th Symphony.

But of course, Mahler was also indebted to many other composers and sometimes quoted or almost-quoted them. Going back to the 1st Symphony's finale, others have remarked on the resemblance the final form of the "triumph" theme bears to a chorus from Handel's Messiah ("And he shall reign...") - and on the very Beethovenian main theme of the funeral march that launches the 2nd Symphony on its way.

[Jo498]

FWIW I think the similarities both to the Grail motive and to  "And he shall reign" seem superficial to me. But I admittedly am rather wary of many supposed allusions and quotations...

[relm1]

FWIW I think the similarities both to the Grail motive and to  "And he shall reign" seem superficial to me. But I admittedly am rather wary of many supposed allusions and quotations...

I agree with you.  It's like saying the Mahler quoted Beethoven with the bird calls in the same symphony here:
https://youtu.be/9ORsinmqm0M?t=1410

There are similarities with the Wagner operatic brass fanfares but overall, lots of allusions to other music including klezmer and folk.