Mahler Mania, Rebooted

Started by Greta, May 01, 2007, 08:06:38 PM

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Wanderer


greg

cool!
Looks like the library knows how make a nice selection  :D

Lilas Pastia

Quote from: mahler10th on June 15, 2008, 05:13:09 PM

Wed March 15th 7.30pm Glasgow City Halls., Scotland
Robert Spano BBC SSO
The Programme: Britten - Serenade for tenor, horn and strings
Mahler - 5th Symphony



Next, the main event, Mahlers 5th. The Funeral March begins, and Spano looks like he knows where he's going. Elizabeth Layton, leader of the Orchestra, looks like she loves Mahler in a dreamy way, and I near fall in love with her too in a dreamy way.

The timpani are spot on, and Robert Spano gives it hell in the second movement, making sure the Orchestra keep in synch with his expressions and body movements, fleeing from first violins to double bass to absoloutley superb trumpet by Mark O'keefe, with passion from Spanos feet upward. This is quite in order as Mahler marked the movement to be played stormy, with vehemence.

The Scherzo third movement is a real tickler, Spano gives it the earthy folky feel it deserves, and it lives up to its title scherzo (literally 'Joke'), and the triangle is heard!

The famous Adagio fourth movement comes on with the conductor paying attention to the downbeats, and a magnificent weariness is born here, the World is just too much to take in, and the Orchestra under Spano lets us know that. There is scarcely a pause before Spano begins the fifth movement.

Many of the themes come together for the finale, the Adagio being prominent in this performance, and it is here we can hear (where Mahlers learning from Bachs scores) a fine balance of Polophony. There are melodies here not intertwined, but bouncing off each other in a coherent way, meeting and culminating in an expression of optimism and complete joy.

Noteworthy were Mark O'Keefe on trumpet, an absoloutley spellbinding job with no silly vibrato, David Flack (Horns), Simon Johnson and Philip Weldon (great Trombones).

My only problem with the entire performance was the Brass and Woodwind being one or two decibels louder than expected - Spano gave no let up in this and there was a little drowning going on. But then, that may be because of where I was sitting (in the cheap seats, above right of Orchestra) or the Hall acoustics - this was the only major flaw if one can call it that - it is Mahler, and some conductors (Solti et al.,) liked Mahler horns and trumpets etc to be loud as hell. Overall though, it was a superb performance, one I will remember, and Radio 3 rightly have recorded it for broadcast at a later date.

Well done Spano and the BBC SSO.


Good review ! It gives us old geezers a nice feel of being back in our late teens-early twenties, when Mahler's 5th was the coolest and hottest thing in town .

QuoteThere are melodies here not intertwined, but bouncing off each other in a coherent way, meeting and culminating in an expression of optimism and complete joy.
Well, that's how the movement is constructed. The ping-pong effect is quite intentional and part of the movement's extremely 'learned' structure -a Rondo that neatly telescopes all kinds of baroque and classical elements such as fugue, choral, counterpoint and the like.
FWIW, it should be noted that it's normal that there should be 'scarcely a pause' between IV and V: it's marked attacca, or "without pause" in plain English.

knight66

#403
I have been watching Bernstein conducting the 2nd from Ely Cathedral in 1973. I have never heard him in this piece. I had no real idea what to expect. It is by some minutes the slowest of the half dozen versions that I have. In at 91 minutes almost 10 minutes longer than most of them.

This performance is with the first and third on a double DVD set from DG.

As so often, here timings do not really tell the story. It is not a moment too long. Endlessly I was drawn to detail I have never really taken in. Detail I was aware of made a new kind of sense. Although slow, it is never leaden, but is full of energy, the rhythms lift, drama is coursing through it. It is often thrilling.

Immediately after the low strings announce the start, the tempo is set at a noticeable notch slower than I have heard it. There are fast stretches, but never hectic and the speed changes are integrated. The second movement opens deliberately with the landler handled affectionately.

The sound is close, very, there is not a lot of sense of the vast space in which they are performing. The exception is in the final movement with the offstage brass which sound a great distance and the visuals match the beautiful effect. The LSO play their socks off. Practically an historic document there are some fearsome mullets and sideburns on display. Always excepting Kurt on timpany, as elegant as ever.

My old choir the Edinburgh Festival Chorus do the honours, do them well and sing without scores. Some faces I recognise; younger than when I was around. Sheila Armstrong has her splendid two pence worth, a short but difficult solo; as she is responsible for correcting the pitch, while the choir is still singing should the chorus go flat during the hushed unaccompanied 'Auferstehn'. No correction was needed. Singing softly and a' capella is always difficult for a large choir and frequently they will all sink together...in tune. Often the passage is doubled very quietly by the strings as a safety net. But it would spoil the effect.

Janet Baker sings Ulricht as well as I have ever heard her. She copes easily with the tempo that puts two minutes onto the usual timing and uses that timing to bring out lots of shades of expression. No wonder she appears on so many recordings of the piece.

Right after her movement faded slowly into silence, Bernstein unleashes a terrific wave of sound heralding the epic final movement. He stretches silences and at times movement of the music is as though under water in slow motion; but as I said, it all works wonderfully. there is a superbly tense buildup to the united horn calls which feel like a ship being launched, then, as I think, with the best of conductors, Bernstein slows further to let the epic qualities of this section register. On it goes through the drum roll and towards the magically hushed choral contribution.

Bernstein conducts from memory, uses a stick and as I am sure everyone familiar with him would assume, he communicates fully and clearly.

Now I know what to expect and what I have been missing all these years.
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

J.Z. Herrenberg

Excellent, Mike. Thanks. You bring it to life.
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

bhodges

Wow, great write-up, Mike.  And I guess I didn't realize you hadn't heard Bernstein in this piece.  His CD with the NYPO (the DG one from the mid-1980s) is still one of my favorite versions, and this DVD sounds like it is similarly riveting. 

--Bruce

Bonehelm

The Bernstein '73 M2 is VERY reverberant. It's recorded in a large cathedral, and I find the basses boomy, treble imprecise, and middle dynamically-compressed. Very flawed technically...

but musically I don't need to say much...it's Bernstein, of course it's emotionally deep and all. Just make sure you like your Mahler beefed up instead of straight-talkers' approach like Abbado.

M forever

Quote from: meh on June 29, 2008, 07:33:18 PM
but musically I don't need to say much...it's Bernstein, of course it's emotionally deep and all. Just make sure you like your Mahler beefed up instead of straight-talkers' approach like Abbado.

I don't think knight thinks in such general musical terms. His review is much more detailed and perceptive than that.

Which reminds me - knight: there was a big Mahler festival in London in the early 80s where Abbado conducted all the symphonies with the LSO, is that correct? If so, did you take part in some of these performances?

I have one question though since it's been ages since I watched this film:

Quote from: meh on June 29, 2008, 07:33:18 PM
The Bernstein '73 M2 is VERY reverberant. It's recorded in a large cathedral, and I find the basses boomy, treble imprecise, and middle dynamically-compressed. Very flawed technically...
Quote from: knight on June 29, 2008, 12:20:21 PM
The sound is close, very, there is not a lot of sense of the vast space in which they are performing.

So what is the sound like, very close or VERY reverberant?

knight66

M, No I was not involved in the Mahler festival at all. I was out of the big choirs by then, living in rural England.

As to the recording; the sound is very close and full, little reverb at all. Soloists and choir also forward in the soundpicture.

Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

Bonehelm

Quote from: knight on June 29, 2008, 09:46:25 PM
M, No I was not involved in the Mahler festival at all. I was out of the big choirs by then, living in rural England.

As to the recording; the sound is very close and full, little reverb at all. Soloists and choir also forward in the soundpicture.

Mike

Are we talking about the same recording? It's Bernstein's M2 with LSO and Edinburgh Festival Chorus right? 1973 LIVE in Ely cathedral? With visible audience? I have that DVD and I watched it no less than 4 times, and the sound is VERY reverberant. I say what I heard, believe it or not. Try it for yourself and see...

I doubt either one of us received a defective copy.

knight66

Yes, it is the same recording. I heard very close sound. The instruments are at the front of the soundpicture as though you were in amongst them. It is not what you would hear from half way back in the cathedral, which is how some recordings are designed. In those, reverb is frequent as the effect of the building itself is then quite clear on the overall sound. One of the worst I know of is the Maazel Don Giovanni that was used as the sountrack to the Losey film. It sounds like it was recorded in a hugh bathroom. Perhaps you are referring to reverb in a different and more technical way.

Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

greg

QuoteIt sounds like it was recorded in a hugh bathroom.
:D
Have you ever heard played, or heard played electric guitar in a large bathroom with reverb all the way up? I'm pretty sure i have...... now that's REVERBANT!  :D

Papy Oli

Having dug up the DVD to have a listen again, the sound on the Bernstein M2 may not be up to the standard we would expect; I personally find it a tad hollow and distant at times, but i wouldn't go as far as saying VERY reverberant.

For what it is worth, although I am not comparing like for like, I have attended my first classical concert (rehearsals and performance) in the Ely cathedral, and putting the emotional bias aside, the sound of the DVD is indeed coming out much closer than what you you would hear on location (I was about 2/3 of the way down the cathedral, and there was quite a muffle when it reached there).

Yet again, we are talking of a 35 year old recording with our personal perceptions, so i guess it is all relative, my dear Albert  ;D... enjoy the music and go with the flow  ;)
Olivier

Bonehelm

Quote from: papy on June 30, 2008, 12:08:42 PM
Having dug up the DVD to have a listen again, the sound on the Bernstein M2 may not be up to the standard we would expect; I personally find it a tad hollow and distant at times, but i wouldn't go as far as saying VERY reverberant.

For what it is worth, although I am not comparing like for like, I have attended my first classical concert (rehearsals and performance) in the Ely cathedral, and putting the emotional bias aside, the sound of the DVD is indeed coming out much closer than what you you would hear on location (I was about 2/3 of the way down the cathedral, and there was quite a muffle when it reached there).

Yet again, we are talking of a 35 year old recording with our personal perceptions, so i guess it is all relative, my dear Albert  ;D... enjoy the music and go with the flow  ;)

Wholeheartedly agree. Reverberation isn't always a bad thing, either  8)

Papy Oli

Olivier

M forever

I tried really hard, but I couldn't think of anything that would interest me less than yet another Mahler 5 with a basically very good  orchestra autopiloting through the piece under the "direction" of yet another of the many wannabee conductors out there. Why? Why?? Why??? There are so many recordings of this piece already, with even better orchestras and vastly more interesting conductors.

greg

Quote from: M forever on July 06, 2008, 01:35:05 PM
I tried really hard, but I couldn't think of anything that would interest me less than yet another Mahler 5 with a basically very good  orchestra autopiloting through the piece under the "direction" of yet another of the many wannabee conductors out there. Why? Why?? Why??? There are so many recordings of this piece already, with even better orchestras and vastly more interesting conductors.
Yeah, why don't they focus their efforts on new music? We've got a couple of really good composers on this site who wouldn't be able to get the London Phil to do a recording of their music in their wildest dreams, yet the music of a dead composer can be recorded hundreds of times.

Dancing Divertimentian

Quote from: M forever on July 06, 2008, 01:35:05 PM
I tried really hard, but I couldn't think of anything that would interest me less than yet another Mahler 5 with a basically very good  orchestra autopiloting through the piece under the "direction" of yet another of the many wannabee conductors out there. Why? Why?? Why??? There are so many recordings of this piece already, with even better orchestras and vastly more interesting conductors.

I haven't heard Van Zweden's Mahler but I was pleasantly surprised by the high quality of his Beethoven cycle with the Residentie Orchestra (The Hague). Based on that I wouldn't hesitate to audition anything he's recorded.

He seems to have a pretty good pedigree - he made concertmaster of the Concertgebouw Orchestra at age nineteen, as well as making the rounds as guest conductor with various orchestras until he took over the Residentie MD spot. He's now MD of the Dallas Symphony.

Granted we hardly need another recording of warhorse repertoire but sometimes these 'second string' performers can surprise us. Which makes it all worthwhile. Van Zweden's Beethoven cycle is one of those unheralded successes...





Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

M forever

Quote from: donwyn on July 06, 2008, 05:18:46 PM
I haven't heard Van Zweden's Mahler but I was pleasantly surprised by the high quality of his Beethoven cycle with the Residentie Orchestra (The Hague).

I wasn't. At all.

Quote from: donwyn on July 06, 2008, 05:18:46 PM
Based on that I wouldn't hesitate to audition anything he's recorded.

Based on that, I would.

Dancing Divertimentian

Quote from: M forever on July 06, 2008, 05:36:22 PM
I wasn't. At all.

Based on that, I would.

Perhaps you're just unable to understand it... 8)



Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach