Author Topic: Mahler Mania, Rebooted  (Read 611049 times)

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M forever

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #440 on: July 07, 2008, 05:29:08 AM »
Amazing to see that Gergiev still finds time for such a long piece in his very busy schedule. But then the LSO can play that no matter who is posing in front of them, and he has his assistants who do most of the actual rehearsing for him, so all he has to do is show up on time (which he doesn't always do either) and grin diabolically while conducting, then everybody will be happy. Do we need that on disc? Probably not. Even though this is one of the less recorded Mahler symphonies, there are still quite a few very good versions already out there. I may be completely wrong, but I have a feeling Gergiev won't add any particular insights to what is already available.

Offline Dancing Divertimentian

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #441 on: July 07, 2008, 06:35:47 AM »
I have lots of questions about Beethoven, but chances are not very good someone with your background could actually answer them.

Ah, yes, you bothered to "ask" me because you were interested in my culturally bankrupt opinion. How could I forget? :D

Quote
However, you announced that you could tell me some things about these particular interpretatoins which I don't understand. Always eager to expand my horizon, I still look forward to these very special insights. Unless that was just hollow rhetorics.

Hmm...I remember it differently. I distinctly recall it resembling a kangaroo court with you presiding and me left fending off charges of American inferiority.

Is this how you "expand your horizons"...?



Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

M forever

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #442 on: July 07, 2008, 08:44:40 AM »
Yes. One should always be open even if it seems unlikely that new insights come from a particular direction (like yours). But - if someone claims to have new and/or special insights, why not have an open ear and check it out? A lot of the times, like this time here with you, there is nothing behind the dramatic claims, but - sometimes there is. You never know.

Offline knight66

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #443 on: July 07, 2008, 08:51:07 AM »
BBC Radio 3 is broadcasting the LSO live each weekday evening this week. Gergiev in Mahler.

Here is a link from which anyone interested can find details.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/performanceon3/pip/9xvdo/

Mike
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I wasted time: and time wasted me.

PerfectWagnerite

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #444 on: July 07, 2008, 09:00:45 AM »
Today I have been listening to Sinopoli's Philharmonia Mahler 6th. So far I am not sure what to think. The first 2 movements are very good. I always appreciate it when the exposition repeat in the first movement is taken. I like how Sinopoli achieves an entire spectrum of dynamics from the orchestra so at times it has a very chambermusic-like feel. But when the music calls for it he gets brass playing from the Philharmonia that is unbelievable, it almost sounds like the Staatskapelle Dresden at times. I am less thrilled with the final two movements. There are times when the phrasing is a exaggerating, like the opening of the finale, when you almost hear a tenuto mark or some kind of accent on the repeated string notes. Throughout the Andante there are highlights and dynamics tweaks that make the music sound extremely intimate and beautiful but somehow doesn't give the moment the forward impetus it needs. He certainly plays this music very freely with an almost 20 minute Andante. Regardless I can't argue this is a very prepared, rehearsed, and thought-out performance that is NOT generic in anyway.

There is a weird noise at 31:17 of the final movement that lasts for about 14 seconds, it sounds like some kind of tape rolling (like in a movie theater) or maybe a percussion part but is sounds like it isn't supposed to be there...
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 09:06:28 AM by PerfectWagnerite »

Offline Sergeant Rock

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #445 on: July 07, 2008, 09:39:33 AM »

There is a weird noise at 31:17 of the final movement that lasts for about 14 seconds, it sounds like some kind of tape rolling (like in a movie theater) or maybe a percussion part but is sounds like it isn't supposed to be there...

It's the snare drum...although it certainly sounds like no snare drum I've ever heard. It's clearer in other recordings.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

M forever

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #446 on: July 07, 2008, 09:50:22 AM »
See? I told you you could only benefit from overcoming your biases there and actually *listening* to these recordings. Are they "the best"? No. Are they "perfect"? Definitely not. Are they the "right way" to play Mahler? Who knows. Nobody really does (apart from Hurwitz, of course). But they certainly are more interesting and have more personality and character than a lot of the other stuff out there. Too many people conduct Mahler because the music is very "popular" now, without really having much to say about the music. Sinopoli does (or did). Plus it is great to hear the very free and individualistic playing of the orchestra. They do blend together well, but they also have very strong individual characters in each section. Yes, the sound may not exactly be the "traditional" kind of "Mahler sound", it may be a little lightweight and lack some power in the bass region, but they make that up by very transparent and well defined playing (and that includes the basses who could be "more" in some places, but they still play their part with great definition and nuance, and that is worth a lot, too). Sinopoli's handling of texture and harmonic elements and balance is very special. He understands both the structural and the musical-expressive value of the elements the music is constructed from, and the way he "deconstructs" the score and lays it open in front of the listener rather than just counting on the orchestral masses to blend together and impress by sheer impact and weight rather than musical argumentation is pretty special, something heard very rarely.

Offline Papy Oli

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #447 on: July 07, 2008, 10:15:06 AM »
BBC Radio 3 is broadcasting the LSO live each weekday evening this week. Gergiev in Mahler.

Here is a link from which anyone interested can find details.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/performanceon3/pip/9xvdo/

Mike

Thanks for the heads-up, Mike - Just caught the tail end of the 3rd movement of the Second  :D
Olivier

Offline Papy Oli

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #448 on: July 07, 2008, 10:31:21 AM »
The Urlicht on that BBC3 broadcast was quite painful to listen to... that's not a Second i'll put on my shopping list... :-\
Olivier

Bonehelm

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #449 on: July 07, 2008, 10:31:29 AM »
Amazing to see that Gergiev still finds time for such a long piece in his very busy schedule. But then the LSO can play that no matter who is posing in front of them, and he has his assistants who do most of the actual rehearsing for him, so all he has to do is show up on time (which he doesn't always do either) and grin diabolically while conducting, then everybody will be happy. Do we need that on disc? Probably not. Even though this is one of the less recorded Mahler symphonies, there are still quite a few very good versions already out there. I may be completely wrong, but I have a feeling Gergiev won't add any particular insights to what is already available.

Bernstein/NYPO on DG for example.

Bonehelm

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #450 on: July 07, 2008, 10:31:50 AM »
The Urlicht on that BBC3 broadcast was quite painful to listen to... that's not a Second i'll put on my shopping list... :-\

Care to give specifics?

Offline Papy Oli

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #451 on: July 07, 2008, 10:37:01 AM »
the 1st section of the Urlicht was too fast for my liking, and the overall diction was not clear at all - lots of "chewed" words...  :(
Olivier

Bonehelm

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #452 on: July 07, 2008, 11:13:40 AM »
the 1st section of the Urlicht was too fast for my liking, and the overall diction was not clear at all - lots of "chewed" words...  :(

Could it be due to the not exactly breathtaking quality of the streaming audio?

Offline Papy Oli

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #453 on: July 07, 2008, 11:22:29 AM »
i personally put that down to the singing, but you are right too, that streaming was below par..  >:(

and the last movement was way too fast as well... >:(

Boy, i have the "Grumpy Bugger" mode switched on tonight  0:)  ;D
Olivier

Bonehelm

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #454 on: July 07, 2008, 08:19:27 PM »
i personally put that down to the singing, but you are right too, that streaming was below par..  >:(

and the last movement was way too fast as well... >:(

Boy, i have the "Grumpy Bugger" mode switched on tonight  0:)  ;D

Hurry! treat yourself to this before the illness spreads!


Renfield

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #455 on: July 07, 2008, 08:37:39 PM »
Hurry! treat yourself to this before the illness spreads!



Better yet, treat yourself to this:




Couldn't resist. 8)

Offline knight66

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #456 on: July 08, 2008, 05:54:51 AM »
Better yet, treat yourself to this:




Couldn't resist. 8)
Ohww...that version of the Mahler id like wearing a hair shirt. Not my kind of approach. However, the Kurtag Stele paired with it is pretty stunning music and there are very few versions available.

Mike
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I wasted time: and time wasted me.

Offline Brewski

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #457 on: July 08, 2008, 05:58:13 AM »
However, the Kurtag Stele paired with it is pretty stunning music and there are very few versions available.

Mike

You got that right!  Just checked and I don't think we have a thread on that guy...will remedy in a little bit. 

Edit: oops, we certainly DO have a thread on Kurtág, and someone I know started it. :-[

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« Last Edit: July 09, 2008, 06:12:43 PM by bhodges »
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eyeresist

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #458 on: July 09, 2008, 05:06:26 PM »

Finally picked up Barbirolli's M6 on EMI. It sure is slow.


Lilas Pastia

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Re: Mahler Mania, Rebooted
« Reply #459 on: July 09, 2008, 06:14:17 PM »
It's very slow, but utterly gripping. Impossible to forget once you've heard it.

Does it make sense as per score? No idea. But Barbirolli was of the school that read and pondered long over scores before showing up on the podium. So, even though he goes against the grain tempo-wise, I think his interpretation makes sense intellectually. Mahler's long, painful descent to hell may be viewed as a maelstrom of violent emotions, but also as a dark, relentless, slow-motion pounding, complete with flashbacks from happy memories. For me it works both ways. But my appreciation and understanding of Mahler's most important work would be incomplete without Barbiroilli's interpretation.