Mahler Mania, Rebooted

Started by Greta, May 01, 2007, 08:06:38 PM

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J.Z. Herrenberg

I agree completely, LP. Barbirolli's is one of the most compelling readings I know.
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

bhodges

#461
Thanks to On An Overgrown Path, one of my favorite blogs, I'm listening to Valery Gergiev and the LSO in Mahler's Eighth Symphony, rebroadcast on BBC 3 after being performed live earlier tonight from St. Paul's Cathedral.  Given the difficulties of recording in the venue, the sound is quite remarkable.  Here is the link and the personnel.  (Those familiar with the Kirov will recognize some of these soloists.)

Edit: I forgot to mention, you can listen to this for 7 days!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/mainframe.shtml?http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/radio3.shtml

(You'll hear the end of Sadko, but just stay with it until about 19:12, when the Mahler begins.)

Mahler: Symphony No. 8
London Symphony Orchestra
Valery Gergiev conductor
Victoria Yastrebova soprano
Ailish Tynan soprano
Liudmilla Dudinova soprano
Lili Paasikivi mezzo soprano
Zlata Bulycheva mezzo soprano
Sergey Semishkur tenor
Alexey Markov baritone
Evgeny Nitikin bass
The Choir of Eltham College
London Symphony Chorus
The Choral Arts Society of Washington

--Bruce

J.Z. Herrenberg

Thanks, Bruce. Just listened to Part 1, Veni creator. I'm no great Gergiev fan, but I like what he did there. Perhaps the cavernous acoustics of St Paul's made him go slower this time, because he wasn't as rushed as usual. His tempi were good. And 'Accende lumen sensibus' always lifts my spirits.
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

bhodges

I've not been to St. Paul's Cathedral, but those who have say it's acoustically not very good, at least for this kind of music.  (Knight told me you have to be under the dome, or basically the sound is terrible.)  This Gergiev Mahler may be an instance in which the recorded version is actually better than what one would hear live.

But the soloists come through very clearly and distinctly.  In this post on the blog, On an Overgrown Path, Pliable comments on the close miking that was required.  My guess is that if there isn't that sense of spaciousness, the payoff is in greater detail.  And I agree: the slower tempi work better.  (But then, I like Chailly in this piece, who is even slower!)

--Bruce

J.Z. Herrenberg

Overall, I like it, though it isn't perfect.

There is an interesting review afterwards...
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

knight66

#465
The acoustic setting takes a bit of getting used to, but in many ways it adds to the epic quality of the piece. However, to me the greatest drawback is the submerging of the strings who become indistinguishable for long stretches of time. The spectacular organ contribution towards the end does not register strongly.The tempi are fine, sane, nothing too pushed, but in fact, I sense no individual take on the piece, it is an efficient performance, but not distinctive or inspirational. Try Wyn Morris, also live, I think at the Albert Hall and then see how he makes much more of the narrative aspects of the symphony.

I wonder if these performances will appear on CD.

Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: knight on July 11, 2008, 02:12:55 PM
I wonder if these performances will appear on CD.

Yes. The 1st and 5th (IIRC) have already appeared. The 8th will follow in due course. I wonder what magic the sound engineers will have to employ...
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

knight66

Jezetha, I have the First and Sixth, I don't think that the Fifth is out there yet. I am assuming the two performances of the Eighth will be patched/edited into live discs. They seem to be rushing the whole cycle through. I suppose I was really wondering whether there were more performances planned, possibly at another venue, which might yield a performance with more flavour, but I guess not.

I enjoyed the two initial issues, though I know the First did not meet with a great deal of approval. I am happy to pick and choose amongst the performances I want. I think his approach is too variable for me to want the whole lot.

Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

J.Z. Herrenberg

Critic Edward Seckerson said he almost wanted to walk out during the Ninth, because Gergiev was so unsubtle and insensitive. He also doesn't prepare too well. It's hit or miss with Gergiev. He can be electrifying, but there is a brutality to his approach I can't stomach. 'Gergiev doesn't do charm', as Seckerson (I think) said during that post-concert review...
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

knight66

I find a lot more charm in his take on the First than others seem to. (I reviewed the First and Sixth somewhere on this site, perhaps on this thread.)  But the Eighth sounded undercooked to me, not in terms of ensemble, but the detail of an interpretation. Sinopoli is another interesting Eighth if Morris is not available, you can feel the thinking that goes into that kind of approach. I have not always enjoyed Sinopoli's Mahler. A live 2nd felt like assisting at an autopsy; everything splayed out for you to pay attention to, but dead.

Getting the ducks lined up is not getting to the heart of this symphony and the Eighth will probably sound quite good on disc, the acoustic will enhance the soloists for example, but I doubt if it will be thought of as a valuable lasting document.

Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: knight on July 12, 2008, 12:52:08 AM
I have not always enjoyed Sinopoli's Mahler. A live 2nd felt like assisting at an autopsy; everything splayed out for you to pay attention to, but dead.

;D

Or put differently - the intimacy of the surgeon, not the lover!
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Papy Oli

Olivier

knight66

"I suppose the more likely scenario is that the collective consciousness has not moved on at all but, rather, I have."

From Mr Tristan Jakob-Hoff. Here is his full blog biog.

"Tristan Jakob-Hoff is a classical music writer and critic. He studied composition at the University of Auckland and holds decidedly firm opinions on contemporary music as a result. When not writing about music, he likes to spend his time earning a living."


Any interest that becomes obsessional surely is eventually satiated. Had he leavened his obsessiveness, perhaps his Mahler recordings would be enjoying a longer shelf life; rather than a life on the shelf.

I wonder what it is that he does for a living?

Mike

DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

Renfield

QuoteSo has the shine finally come off Mahler? In a post-9/11 world - a world in which we are fed a constant, wearying diet of terrorism, climate change, genocide and epic natural disasters, but one in which we are crucially short on optimism - has our appetite for Mahler's brand of dualism been diminished? Perhaps the problem is that, while the more extreme passages in his music seem to reflect all too accurately the world in which we live, the sentimental aspects feel more and more like false consolation.

I am profoundly amused by how the world always seems to revolve around American events and concerns, at times. ;D

And on-topic, I am also profoundly amused by how people almost always seem to have to write all sorts of dissertations simply to come to terms with change; in this case, a change of musical taste.

He says it himself, he "moved on": it's about himself and his preferences. How is this about Mahler, other than to appease his insecurity? In fact, he sounds a lot like what he seems to reject in Mahler, most ironically! :D

greg

Quote from: Renfield on July 13, 2008, 02:33:58 PM
I am profoundly amused by how the world always seems to revolve around American events and concerns, at times. ;D

And on-topic, I am also profoundly amused by how people almost always seem to have to write all sorts of dissertations simply to come to terms with change; in this case, a change of musical taste.

He says it himself, he "moved on": it's about himself and his preferences. How is this about Mahler, other than to appease his insecurity? In fact, he sounds a lot like what he seems to reject in Mahler, most ironically! :D
who is this quote from?

PSmith08

Quote from: knight on July 13, 2008, 11:21:11 AM
I wonder what it is that he does for a living?

Here's hoping his boss isn't an incurable Mahler-phile, lest the next office party end in tears.

Renfield

Quote from: GGGGRRREEG on July 13, 2008, 04:27:28 PM
who is this quote from?

That Guardian blog post about moving on from Mahler, in our post-9/11 world. ;)

greg

ah, alright, just read it.

You know, the same thing has pretty much happened with the Brahms symphonies for me. I used to listen to a Brahms symphony just about every day for 2 years straight- and there's only 4 of them, so I got to where i memorized just about every note before long. After awhile, I just stopped listening, had no desire and still don't even though I really really love them. It was just so much that going back to one of those symphonies seems like the "same old" thing.
In fact, I'm listening to Mahler less and less...... but i can't say that I'm actually moving on. I "moved on" from Brahms to Mahler in my main listening, and I've been getting very familiar with the Shostakovich symphonies, but I'm not actually "moving on" to them.
I think it's a similar thing as the author says, just cut back a little bit and the impact will come back.

Bonehelm

I just listened to the 6th for the first time and.....WOW  :o what a powerful symphony...so hopeless and tragic and discouraging...the build-up to the hammer blows are ingenious.

Renfield

Quote from: Bonehelm on July 14, 2008, 03:39:57 PM
I just listened to the 6th for the first time and.....WOW  :o what a powerful symphony...so hopeless and tragic and discouraging...the build-up to the hammer blows are ingenious.

Hurray! How are you with the 7th, then? ;D

(One by one, you'll get to the 9th one day, that's all that matters. :P)