Mahler Mania, Rebooted

Started by Greta, May 01, 2007, 08:06:38 PM

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Bonehelm

Quote from: Renfield on July 14, 2008, 04:23:55 PM
Hurray! How are you with the 7th, then? ;D

(One by one, you'll get to the 9th one day, that's all that matters. :P)


Renfield is there any particular recording you want to recommend me for no.6? I have Bernstein (both), Abbado, Kubelik, Bertini, Gergiev, de Waart and Solti. Haven't heard all of them yet, however.  :)

Cato

Quote from: Bonehelm on July 15, 2008, 12:11:24 PM
Renfield is there any particular recording you want to recommend me for no.6? I have Bernstein (both), Abbado, Kubelik, Bertini, Gergiev, de Waart and Solti. Haven't heard all of them yet, however.  :)

Wow!  Be careful of an overdose! 

The good Renfield will no doubt respond: my vote - Kubelik and Bernstein are great for older recordings: if you are a collector who wants completeness, then do not forget Boulez on DGG.
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

J.Z. Herrenberg

Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

PerfectWagnerite

Quote from: Cato on July 15, 2008, 12:20:58 PM
Wow!  Be careful of an overdose! 

The good Renfield will no doubt respond: my vote - Kubelik and Bernstein are great for older recordings: if you are a collector who wants completeness, then do not forget Boulez on DGG.
What does the second "G" stand for in DGG. I keep seeing people use it but Deutsche Grammophon has only one "G" in the entire unabbreviated name. So how come when you abbreviate it, it gains an extra "G"?

J.Z. Herrenberg

Deutsche Grammophon Gesellschaft (company).
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

PerfectWagnerite

Quote from: Jezetha on July 15, 2008, 12:27:51 PM
Deutsche Grammophon Gesellschaft (company).
Thanks, now that makes sense.

drogulus

Quote from: Jezetha on July 15, 2008, 12:22:09 PM
Bonehelm, why not try Barbirolli's Sixth... It's terrific. But be quick with dl'ing, because this Rapidshare account will expire on Thursday and I am not renewing it...




     My mind has been poisoned by Szell/Cleveland, so the Barbirolli seems slow. I'll give it another try.
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J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: drogulus on July 15, 2008, 01:21:38 PM
     My mind has been poisoned by Szell/Cleveland, so the Barbirolli seems slow. I'll give it another try.

It IS slow. But Barbirolli makes a convincing case, I think (although I don't want 'my' Sixths to be always like that...).
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Papy Oli

Quote from: Bonehelm on July 14, 2008, 03:39:57 PM
I just listened to the 6th for the first time and.....

Quote from: Bonehelm on July 15, 2008, 12:11:24 PM
....I have Bernstein (both), Abbado, Kubelik, Bertini, Gergiev, de Waart and Solti. Haven't heard all of them yet, however.  :)

Bonehelm,
I am easily confused but do you mean you have accumulated those recordings (i assume complete cycles for most?), but never listened to the 6th once until now ? that's err...puzzling.... or is it just me ?  ;D

Olivier

Papy Oli

Quote from: Jezetha on July 15, 2008, 01:34:35 PM
It IS slow.

hi Johan,
Just listening to Barbirolli's 1st movement now ...i am used to the abbado version, so quite a departure as well, but it does work well indeed !!

oh and Dank Je Wel !  ;)
Olivier

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: papy on July 15, 2008, 01:40:56 PM
hi Johan,
Just listening to Barbirolli's 1st movement now ...i am used to the abbado version, so quite a departure as well, but it does work well indeed !!

oh and Dank Je Wel !  ;)

C'est rien.  ;)
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

greg

Quote from: GGGGRRREEG on July 14, 2008, 07:00:59 AM
ah, alright, just read it.

You know, the same thing has pretty much happened with the Brahms symphonies for me. I used to listen to a Brahms symphony just about every day for 2 years straight- and there's only 4 of them, so I got to where i memorized just about every note before long. After awhile, I just stopped listening, had no desire and still don't even though I really really love them. It was just so much that going back to one of those symphonies seems like the "same old" thing.
In fact, I'm listening to Mahler less and less...... but i can't say that I'm actually moving on. I "moved on" from Brahms to Mahler in my main listening, and I've been getting very familiar with the Shostakovich symphonies, but I'm not actually "moving on" to them.
I think it's a similar thing as the author says, just cut back a little bit and the impact will come back.
Sorry I wrote this post. This is pure nonsense. What can I say, I'm more obsessed with Mahler's 9th than Eric is obsessed with Pelleas et Melisande.  :P

Cato

Quote from: GGGGRRREEG on July 15, 2008, 02:19:54 PM
Sorry I wrote this post. This is pure nonsense. What can I say, I'm more obsessed with Mahler's 9th than Eric is obsessed with Pelleas et Melisande.  :P

An obsession with Mahler's Ninth is ipso facto much less serious than the idee fixe of Monsieur Eric!

As you age, you will go back to things from decades earlier, and wonder why you ever dismissed them, and vice versa!  In recent years I have returned to Schumann and Schubert symphonies now and then, after decades of neglect.  Of course, I now wonder what I heard to enthuse me so much about Penderecki's Second Symphony: it seems unworthy now of my initial approval.
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

greg

Quote from: Cato on July 15, 2008, 03:03:45 PM
An obsession with Mahler's Ninth is ipso facto much less serious than the idee fixe of Monsieur Eric!
Interesting terms.... i've heard the latter and probably the former, but I'm not quite sure what they mean.

Quote from: Cato on July 15, 2008, 03:03:45 PM
Of course, I now wonder what I heard to enthuse me so much about Penderecki's Second Symphony: it seems unworthy now of my initial approval.
Haven't listened to that one for awhile, but this is the exact same feeling I have of Mahler's 8th. Good moments mixed with such overdosed grand statements that have no effect on me at all.... i suspect maybe i was just in the mood for it at first listening? Or maybe I feel it just isn't something I'd listen to again and again?  I don't know, maybe the same is true for you, too?

Lilas Pastia

Ipso facto means 'as a consequence'  - litterally "from that fact" (IIRC my high school Latin). And idée fixe (litterally 'fixed idea') simply means something that keeps returning, or that simply won't go away. A motto, a harmless obsession are idées fixes.

not edward

Quote from: Cato on July 15, 2008, 03:03:45 PM
Of course, I now wonder what I heard to enthuse me so much about Penderecki's Second Symphony: it seems unworthy now of my initial approval.
I think it's the completely over-the-top cheesiness of the piece....it's almost like a caricature of the post-Romantic symphony, yet it's done with manifest conviction. I pull it out once every year or two and thoroughly enjoy it: even though it's a dreadful load of old rubbish it's a very well-executed load of old rubbish.
"I don't at all mind actively disliking a piece of contemporary music, but in order to feel happy about it I must consciously understand why I dislike it. Otherwise it remains in my mind as unfinished business."
-- Aaron Copland, The Pleasures of Music

Bonehelm

Quote from: Jezetha on July 15, 2008, 12:22:09 PM
Bonehelm, why not try Barbirolli's Sixth... It's terrific. But be quick with dl'ing, because this Rapidshare account will expire on Thursday and I am not renewing it...

http://rapidshare.com/files/123191887/Gustav_Mahler_-_Symphony_No.6_-_I._Allegro_energico__ma_non_troppo.mp3

http://rapidshare.com/files/123191889/Gustav_Mahler_-_Symphony_No.6_-_II._Scherzo._Wuchtig.mp3

http://rapidshare.com/files/123191891/Gustav_Mahler_-_Symphony_No.6_-_III_Andante.mp3

http://rapidshare.com/files/123194299/Gustav_Mahler_-_Symphony_No.6_-_IV_Finale__Allegro_Moderato_.mp3

http://rapidshare.com/files/123191892/Mahler__Strauss_booklet.pdf


Thanks for the links, kind sir. Couldn't appreciate more.  :) Gotta hate using rapidshare without an account!  >:(

@papy: Yes I do have that many cycles but never bothered trying the 6th. I am going in order, 1-10 with DLvDE between 8 and 9. I feel that I must be able to "grasp"  a work well before moving on to the next.  :D

Renfield

#497
Quote from: Cato on July 15, 2008, 12:20:58 PM
The good Renfield will no doubt respond: my vote - Kubelik and Bernstein are great for older recordings: if you are a collector who wants completeness, then do not forget Boulez on DGG.

Good to see you, Cato! (If only briefly, as it might seem.) :)


Quote from: Bonehelm on July 15, 2008, 05:41:38 PM
I am going in order, 1-10 with DLvDE between 8 and 9. I feel that I must be able to "grasp"  a work well before moving on to the next.  :D

That is how I approached the Mahler symphonies, bar the 6th, which "entered" out of order due to a live concert; and I've not at all regretted it! But I left "Das Lied von der Erde" out of the set, to focus on the numbered works.

(Not to say I've never listened to it, but not as carefully as the "symphony" symphonies.) Still, go ahead with your plan. 8)


Regarding the 6th, off the top of my mind I'd recommend Karajan and Bernstein/VPO, first and foremost.


Karajan is somewhat clinical (as often with his Mahler), but in a work that I feel responds very well to that treatment: his slow movement, for instance, is probably the most haunting I've heard, exactly because of the restraint he treats the most sorrowful sections with.

Ditto for the rest of the symphony, grim, steadily and inevitably paced from beginning to end, sharply etched but vividly painted.


Bernstein is, as often, in the extreme end of the "espressivo" scale, but again, the symphony responds well to the treatment. The VPO version is expansive in every sense of the word, aurally and in terms of interpretation, stomping its way to the very, crushing, end.

Definitely over the top, but a both effective and memorable performance throughout - particularly the first movement positively roars!


Other Mahler 6ths I'd recommend:

The Barbirolli version Johan (Jezetha) uploaded, an elegant, poised, but very serious reading; the Szell version (a favourite of many) as a rougher edged, bare-fanged Karajan (to which it's quite similar, stylistically); the Boulez recording Cato mentioned for an even more single-mindedly objective (but musically crystal-clear) approach; and the Abbado/BPO recent release for a more understated catastrophe.

Kubelík I'll admit to not having listened to yet, although I recently did buy his cycle, and there are also quite a few other good (even great) Mahler 6ths I've not room or time to mention here which you would certainly be far from worse off if you picked up!

All in my opinion, of course.


Finally, since you mentioned it, Gergiev made a good impression on me with the 6th, although as a very, very "alternative" reading.

Still, I'd rank it highly "for what it is", as they say. ;)

Renfield

Double-posting towards reminding myself to write a post on the 8th symphony for Greg, when I've more time.

It's perhaps the most special of the pre-9th Mahler symphonies to me; and likely the most self-contained, along with the 6th (in my view). :)

Papy Oli

Quote from: Bonehelm on July 15, 2008, 05:41:38 PM
@papy: Yes I do have that many cycles but never bothered trying the 6th. I am going in order, 1-10 with DLvDE between 8 and 9. I feel that I must be able to "grasp"  a work well before moving on to the next.  :D

that's fair enough, to each his own way  ;)
Olivier