Mahler Mania, Rebooted

[Sergeant Rock]

Have you read Floros' books about Mahler, his literary interests, the musical language of the 19th century as reflected in Mahler's works, and about the symphonies? Extremely interesting. I think only the book about the symphonies has been translated into English.

I've only read the translated Gustav Mahler The Symphonies.

Sarge

[M forever]

I massively recommend reading "Die geistige Welt Gustav Mahlers in systematischer Darstellung" and "Mahler und die Symphonik des 19. Jahrhunderts in neuer Deutung". Both books have enormously influenced and enrichened my view of Mahler and his music, and especially its musical and cultural contexts. I am sure after 30+ years in Germany, you can read those books, if not, ask your wife to read them and translate them for you!
0:)

[Sergeant Rock]

I massively recommend reading "Die geistige Welt Gustav Mahlers in systematischer Darstellung" and "Mahler und die Symphonik des 19. Jahrhunderts in neuer Deutung". Both books have enormously influenced and enrichened my view of Mahler and his music, and especially its musical and cultural contexts. I am sure after 30+ years in Germany, you can read those books, if not, ask your wife to read them and translate them for you!
0:)

Both are OOP. There's one offer at amazon.de for the former: €160 (I think I'll pass  ); one offer for the latter, €105. Maybe the library has copies.

Sarge

[greg]

Maybe the library has copies.

Ha, which library, God's library?

[Sergeant Rock]

Ha, which library, God's library?

Good question. I don't even know how libraries work in Germany. It's been decades, literally, since I last borrowed a book from any library. I prefer to own. Since I'm a resident of Worms, I assume I can get a library card (or whatever) and borrow from the city's library.

Sarge

[M forever]

Good question. I don't even know how libraries work in Germany.

Same as everywhere. You go in, show your ID, get a library card, select the media you want to check out, and check them out. If you are me, then as a rule, you return them late and pay a lot of unnecessary fees.

These days, you can even research what certain libraries have. They don't seem to have these books in Worms. That doesn't surprise me. But in a lot of cities, you can sometimes get books from other places if you pay a transport fee. Dunno if they do that there. You would have to ask them (or ask your wife to ask them for you).

In any case, if you ever get a chance to borrow or buy or steal these books, don't hesitate. They are really very interesting.

[mahler10th]

An old book on Mahler in the public domain...
http://www.mediafire.com/file/aebiuxp5tso/gustavmahlerstud00stefuoft.pdf

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I massively recommend reading "Die geistige Welt Gustav Mahlers in systematischer Darstellung" and "Mahler und die Symphonik des 19. Jahrhunderts in neuer Deutung".

Seconded.

[greg]

An old book on Mahler in the public domain...
http://www.mediafire.com/file/aebiuxp5tso/gustavmahlerstud00stefuoft.pdf

Awesome! 
thanks for this......

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

An old book on Mahler in the public domain...
http://www.mediafire.com/file/aebiuxp5tso/gustavmahlerstud00stefuoft.pdf

Paul Stefan's book is a classic. It gives you a very vivid sense of how Mahler's music appeared to his contemporaries. Excellent service, John!

[greg]

A gift for everyone, whether they like it or not: Das Klangende Lied!

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/8Eto2qXJhuQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/ky8t9jPp7Ao&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/7J_9emospyc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/jN8tnEJv-eA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/F2shtzY3cV8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/0Z2dPeyuzb0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/IMX9VLKWgMw&feature=related








I want people's opinions about this work. I never bought any of the recordings because I've heard clips and wasn't impressed, plus most of them are old and there's hardly any reviews. Now, after listening, it feels kinda weird. I've heard every note of this guy's music that is available.....

It does seem like an "amateur" work, but there's flashes of genius here and there and lots of foreshadowing of his symphonies.  In fact, during one part (either the 3rd or 5th video), he wrote something similar to what he does in the second- some marching band-like thing playing out of tempo and in another key, kinda like Ives, I guess. Possibly the most discordant section of Mahler's music, period.

It of course sounds like his early songs- don't have the Piano Quartet in mind, because it doesn't sound too much like that. It was written in 1880 (he was 20) and the Piano Quartet was from 1876 (when he was 16), so it sounds like he went from sounding just like Schumann to creating his own style in 4 years.
I thought the whole thing was pretty much schizophrenic-sounding- up and down, all over the place. It sounds like he was at an age where he had lots of ideas, but didn't know how to refine them.
And if you notice, he tends to end everything in a low drone, which sounds like someone not having an idea how to connect to extremely different passages together. He does this so much throughout the work that it almost seems annoying. This reminds me so much of my own music, lol! (imaginative, but unrefined in a bad way). If he can come from this, and then write his symphonies, makes me feel good about what a creative artist can develop with enough effort .

Here's the score, except it's the wrong version:

http://imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/c/cf/IMSLP21326-PMLP49216-Mahler_-_Das_Klagende_Lied__orch._score_.pdf

[M forever]

Das Klangende Lied!

"Klangende" is not an existing German word.

[The new erato]

Maybe it should be "Das Klingende Lied"?

[Gustav]

This reminds me so much of my own music, lol! (imaginative, but unrefined in a bad way). If he can come from this, and then write his symphonies, makes me feel good about what a creative artist can develop with enough effort .

Lol, this part is simply hilarious!

[greg]

So everyone is going to be stupid and not watch it?

[mahler10th]

So everyone is going to be stupid and not watch it?

Your subsequent review doesn't inspire me to listen but I did anyway (to most of it.)
The performance is fine.  Some passages of the music as you rightly say found its way into his symphonic work.
Pretty good for a 20 yr old.  Don't know how else to respond. 

[greg]

Your subsequent review doesn't inspire me to listen but I did anyway (to most of it.)
The performance is fine.  Some passages of the music as you rightly say found its way into his symphonic work.
Pretty good for a 20 yr old.  Don't know how else to respond. 

Yeah, I suppose it wouldn't exactly inspire people to listen. 
But it's a very obscure work, only about 1,000 views each video... just wonder why it isn't sought after more.

[PSmith08]

I want people's opinions about this work. I never bought any of the recordings because I've heard clips and wasn't impressed, plus most of them are old and there's hardly any reviews. Now, after listening, it feels kinda weird. I've heard every note of this guy's music that is available.....

It does seem like an "amateur" work, but there's flashes of genius here and there and lots of foreshadowing of his symphonies.  In fact, during one part (either the 3rd or 5th video), he wrote something similar to what he does in the second- some marching band-like thing playing out of tempo and in another key, kinda like Ives, I guess. Possibly the most discordant section of Mahler's music, period.

It of course sounds like his early songs- don't have the Piano Quartet in mind, because it doesn't sound too much like that. It was written in 1880 (he was 20) and the Piano Quartet was from 1876 (when he was 16), so it sounds like he went from sounding just like Schumann to creating his own style in 4 years.
I thought the whole thing was pretty much schizophrenic-sounding- up and down, all over the place. It sounds like he was at an age where he had lots of ideas, but didn't know how to refine them.
And if you notice, he tends to end everything in a low drone, which sounds like someone not having an idea how to connect to extremely different passages together. He does this so much throughout the work that it almost seems annoying. This reminds me so much of my own music, lol! (imaginative, but unrefined in a bad way). If he can come from this, and then write his symphonies, makes me feel good about what a creative artist can develop with enough effort .

You are aware that Mahler revised Das klagende Lied heavily over twenty years or thereabouts, right? I don't know which version this is, but the piece wasn't premiered until 1901, better than twenty years after he first set down to compose it. With that in mind, it's roughly contemporary with the 3rd. For that reason alone, I tend to think of Das klagende Lied as something more than charming and prescient juvenilia.

[greg]

You are aware that Mahler revised Das klagende Lied heavily over twenty years or thereabouts, right? I don't know which version this is, but the piece wasn't premiered until 1901, better than twenty years after he first set down to compose it. With that in mind, it's roughly contemporary with the 3rd. For that reason alone, I tend to think of Das klagende Lied as something more than charming and prescient juvenilia.

It's the 1880 original version. I wouldn't be surprised if his revised version sounded better.

[Lilas Pastia]

Are you sure it's the original version *1880).  Wiki has this to say about the tortured compositional history of the work:

The first performance did not take place until 1901, by which time Mahler had subjected his original score to several major revisions. The first revision of the work took place in the second half of 1893. This featured a significant reduction and re-arrangement of the orchestral and vocal forces, with the number of harps in the first part being reduced from six (!) to two, and the vocal soloists from eleven to four. The boys' voices were also removed. The off-stage orchestra, which had played an important role in the original score, was also completely removed from the second and third parts. In spite of having lavished such detailed effort on revising the work's first part, Mahler then decided (Autumn 1893) to omit it completely.

Further revisions to what was now a work in two parts (after the omission of the original first part) were made between September and December 1898. At this point, Mahler's previous decision to remove the off-stage brass was reversed. The 1898 revisions were in fact so extensive that Mahler had to write out an entirely new manuscript score.

Although it's unmistakably mahlerian, I wouldn't say it's worth losing sleep over. French critics have long advocated the original version, maybe because Boulez recorded it. There's a very strong Mahler streak among French critics, and they happen to have quite particular views of what constitutes an authentic Mahler sound or performance. On the evidence of recorded history and the evolution of tastes, I'd say they have a point, if not chapter and verse. Haitink has staunchly favoured the revised version. In its original garb, I'd say Mahler's Klagende Lied is not that much different form Sibelius' Kullervo symphony.