Mahler Mania, Rebooted

[imperfection]

Yes. Because orchestral musicians aren't idiots who need the conductor to show them every single rhythmic figure and subdivision. They are highly trained and experienced professionals who can play all that stuff without somebody doing the human metronome for them. In order for the orchestra to play together, they just need the conductor to outline the basic tempo. Actually, they don't even need that. A lot of the the time, orchestras don't play together because, but in spite of the conductor. Most of the coordination is not done by following the man with the stick (or in Boulez' case, without the stick), but by ear and feeling.

Where the good conductors come in is when they shape the tempo and phrasing and expression flexibly, and good conductors often show that in a simple, unmistakeable, to-the-point way which doesn't look all that "spectacular" to the uninformed observers who think the conductor is there to act out the music and the musicians are there to translate his act into sound. But to the informed observers - including the musicians -, that is what counts and what makes the difference between a stiff time beater, or a podium clown, or somebody who looks like he has a constant spastic attack - and a really good conductor who knows what's going on and who can lead a large group of people in coordinated and alive music making.

What do you think about the conductors that have seemingly incomprehensible gestures, like Furtwangler?

[M forever]

Furtwängler didn't have "seemingly imcomprehensive" gestures. For the musicians who played under him, it was very clear what he wanted. But it may not be that easy to understand for or explain to people who don't understand the culture of music making that was behind that.

[knight66]

Free with my Gramophone subscription mag came a sampler of Super Audio Hybrid discs. The tracks are from various independent labels. The first track is from a new Mahler 5, Jansons and the Concertgebouw. We get seven minutes from the opening. The sound is stunning,up front and rich, I like what Jansons does in that brief few minutes, so I have ordered it. It is on the orchestra's own label.

The release will be around the middle of November.

Mike

[Wanderer]

Free with my Gramophone subscription mag came a sampler of Super Audio Hybrid discs. The tracks are from various independent labels. The first track is from a new Mahler 5, Jansons and the Concertgebouw. We get seven minutes from the opening. The sound is stunning,up front and rich, I like what Jansons does in that brief few minutes, so I have ordered it. It is on the orchestra's own label.

The release will be around the middle of November.

That sounds interesting, Mike. Any more samples worth mentioning?

[knight66]

Kurt Nystedt: Imortal Bach sung a'capella by Ensemble 96. I have a different disc of theirs, it is a remarkable choir and the arrangements take unexpected twists. That would be well worth investigating, though there are no actual details of the tracks.

There is also a Nielsen disc from Dacapo, Danish National SO, Orchestral Music, lovely piece from Maskarade, I seem to recall the disc got a lot of praise when it came out.

Mike

[Wanderer]

Kurt Nystedt: Imortal Bach sung a'capella by Ensemble 96. I have a different disc of theirs, it is a remarkable choir and the arrangements take unexpected twists. That would be well worth investigating, though there are no actual details of the tracks.

There is also a Nielsen disc from Dacapo, Danish National SO, Orchestral Music, lovely piece from Maskarade, I seem to recall the disc got a lot of praise when it came out.

Mike

Thanks! 
The Dacapo disc is on the wish list for some time (as is Langgaard's Antikrist on the same label).

[knight66]

I bought Lannggard's Spheres music and throughly enjoyed it; but when I bought some symphonies, I found them very conventional and rather dull.

Mike

[PerfectWagnerite]

I bought Lannggard's Spheres music and throughly enjoyed it; but when I bought some symphonies, I found them very conventional and rather dull.

Mike

I found both the symphonies and Spheres not just dull, but unbearably dull, alsolutely positively unlistenable. Somehow this hack is herald as some kind of "composer" is beyond me.

[Wanderer]

I bought Lannggard's Spheres music and throughly enjoyed it; but when I bought some symphonies, I found them very conventional and rather dull.

I still haven't gotten that one.
Concerning the symphonies, I'm also rather underwhelmed. After the bombastic majesty of the first symphony and anxious piety of Fra Dybet (a superb Segerstam issue on Chandos) the (few) others I've tried didn't catch my fancy as much. I'll possibly try the new Dausgaard or some other Segerstam issues in the future.

[Daedalus]

Could anyone tell me where I might be able to find the words to Des Knaben Wunderhorn online?

I can't seem to find them anywhere. 

[Florestan]

Could anyone tell me where I might be able to find the words to Des Knaben Wunderhorn online?

First volume here, second volume here, third volume here. Enjoy!

[Daedalus]

Thank you Florestan. 

[Florestan]

Thank you Florestan. 

Don't mention.

[Daedalus]

I also made another discovery after some more searching:

http://www.recmusic.org/lieder/

It is called 'The Lied an Art Song Texts Page'. A good resource and not just for Mahler actually.

[Sergeant Rock]

I found both the symphonies and Spheres not just dull, but unbearably dull, alsolutely positively unlistenable. Somehow this hack is herald as some kind of "composer" is beyond me.

I find both the symphonies and Spheres to be not just interesting, but intensely interesting, absolutely positively listenable. How this wonderful composer got lost during the twentieth century is beyond me. It's good to see his music is finally being heralded with many fine recordings.

Sarge

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I find both the symphonies and Spheres to be not just interesting, but intensely interesting, absolutely positively listenable. How this wonderful composer got lost during the twentieth century is beyond me. It's good to see his music is finally being heralded with many fine recordings.

Sarge

I love Langgaard's music, too. You mustn't expect Langgaard to develop, though. He is almost post-modern, any style can suit his purpose. His symphonies are therefore a varied bunch in all senses of the word (both positive and negative), and they live in two centuries. Some are backward-looking, but very appealingly so (7, 8, 9 for instance); one is visionary (6), another (15) is in two movements, the first of which is filled with Angst, while the second sets a sturdy marine poem; one symphony is more a piano concerto (3), another one like a Straussian tone-poem (10). And I could go on.

I like them all, but for different reasons. Looking critically I'd say Langgaard's 'best' symphonies are 4, 6, 10, 14 and 16. But if you love his voice, you'll find beauty in everything he wrote. And there are his piano pieces and his giant organ work Messis, too... In short - I don't find Langgaard 'dull' at all. But that this rather quirky and erratic 'ecstatic outsider' from Denmark isn't to everyone's taste I can well imagine...

[Lilas Pastia]

Good comment, Johan. My own taste runs more towards 'early Langgaard' (symphonies 1-5 for example), but there's tons of interesting music in there - as opposed to the tons of notes some Langgaard contemporaries have bequeathed us...

[greg]

i leave a Christmas gift for all Mahler fans:

http://www.billandellie.com/sounds/mahler7.mp3

[zamyrabyrd]

i leave a Christmas gift for all Mahler fans:
http://www.billandellie.com/sounds/mahler7.mp3

Further to Mahler and Christmas, there was a nice surprise under the tree with Myung-Wung Chung on Rai International conducting Mahler's 4th Symphony at La Scala. Apparently today, the 25th it was a rerun but should come on again.

http://www.international.rai.it/tv/programmi/scheda.php?id=638
su Raiitalia 1 mercoledì 24 dicembre 2008 alle 17,30 ora italiana; su Raitalia 2 giovedì 25 dicembre alle 1.45 ora italiana; su Raitalia 3 venerdì 26 dicembre alle 10.30 ora italiana

I really liked the way he held the orchestra together like the center of a timepiece, drawing the energy towards himself and back again, some talent he has...

ZB

[greg]

Further to Mahler and Christmas, there was a nice surprise under the tree with Myung-Wung Chung on Rai International conducting Mahler's 4th Symphony at La Scala. Apparently today, the 25th it was a rerun but should come on again.

http://www.international.rai.it/tv/programmi/scheda.php?id=638
su Raiitalia 1 mercoledì 24 dicembre 2008 alle 17,30 ora italiana; su Raitalia 2 giovedì 25 dicembre alle 1.45 ora italiana; su Raitalia 3 venerdì 26 dicembre alle 10.30 ora italiana

I really liked the way he held the orchestra together like the center of a timepiece, drawing the energy towards himself and back again, some talent he has...

ZB

I'm sure this was a better "gift" than mine.