Mahler Mania, Rebooted

Started by Greta, May 01, 2007, 08:06:38 PM

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Renfield

Quote from: Marc on February 07, 2009, 12:29:54 AM
Still, it's one of those qualities that makes Gould's performance unique.

True enough. :)

Wanderer

Quote from: Marc on February 07, 2009, 12:29:54 AM
Still, it's one of those qualities that makes Gould's performance unique.

As unique as having someone humming along their favourite tune while you're trying to listen. Never mind, though, it's technology to the rescue! --> The Glenn Gould De-Vocalizer 2000.




Sergeant Rock

Quote from: Renfield on February 06, 2009, 02:39:41 PM
:(

Somehow, I don't mind at all.

Not even Bernstein's "thumps" as he jumps on the podium, let alone Glorious John's subtle groaning; only Gould can get to me, on occasion.

While listening to a recording I don't mind any of these reminders that actual human beings are making the music...and responding to it emotionally as I am. I find Gould's humming, yodeling and creaking chair completely endearing...as is Toscanini when he turns a duet into a trio in his Bohème  ;D

My favorite example, though, is Hélène Grimaud's orgasmic moans during the first movement of op.110...incredibly sexy  8)

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

DavidRoss

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on February 07, 2009, 06:24:42 AM
My favorite example, though, is Hélène Grimaud's orgasmic moans during the first movement of op.110...incredibly sexy  8)
Oh, my!  Not what I expected to find on a Mahler thread.

(Pssst, Sarge...is that on the disc with Masur doing PC#4?)
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

Marc

Please, let's be serious and discrete about this, gentlemen! :D

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on February 07, 2009, 06:24:42 AM
While listening to a recording I don't mind any of these reminders that actual human beings are making the music...and responding to it emotionally as I am. I find Gould's humming, yodeling and creaking chair completely endearing...as is Toscanini when he turns a duet into a trio in his Bohème  ;D

My favorite example, though, is Hélène Grimaud's orgasmic moans during the first movement of op.110...incredibly sexy  8)

Sarge

OK. Endearing, that's a nice word to describe it.
When I watch Bernstein conducting f.i., it certainly gives me some extra positive inspiration.
And this human and emotional element, of which you are speaking, really appeals to me. But in the end I don't recall me saying at any time, after listening to a piece: this is my favourite recording, because of the moaning. ;)
I'm certain that I'd also appreciate Barbirolli's interpretation of Mahler 6 very very much, without his groaning. That's what I wanted to make clear, I think. :)

And, possibly/hopefully my last words about of moaning and groaning in this thread: sure, I believe that Hélène's [:-*] intense orgasms can sound very sexy  .... but I'm not so sure if it really adds something essential to the music she's playing.

I remember once, sitting in the front row, a Dutch conductor moaning, groaning and singing all the time during Bach's Matthäus-Passion. I can assure you: it wasn't easy to endure, almost as tough as carrying the süßes Kreuz.
Then again: if two dashing sopranos would moan during a duetto in Mozart's Così, well, err ....  :-X

Marc

Quote from: Wanderer on February 07, 2009, 04:45:07 AM
As unique as having someone humming along their favourite tune while you're trying to listen. Never mind, though, it's technology to the rescue! --> The Glenn Gould De-Vocalizer 2000.



;D

Sergeant Rock

#686
Quote from: DavidRoss on February 07, 2009, 10:13:16 AM
Oh, my!  Not what I expected to find on a Mahler thread.

(Pssst, Sarge...is that on the disc with Masur doing PC#4?)

Yep...next time your wife is out of the house, slip that into the player, don some headphones (much more intimate that way), and enjoy  ;D

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Sergeant Rock

#687
Quote from: Marc on February 07, 2009, 10:33:04 AM
... but I'm not so sure if it really adds something essential to the music she's playing.

Well, an added emotional rush, the tangible evidence that I'm sharing an experience with another human being (in Grimaud's Beethoven case, a very attractive human being  ;) )  Is that necessary to the music or my enjoyment of it? Of course not. But, as I've said, I've never found it distracting either. I attend quite a few concerts. Mrs. Rock and I usually sit in the front row. If the sounds musicians make while playing music bothered me, we could never enjoy the events. It's no different at home; I don't demand the players perform in silence.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Moldyoldie

(Pasted from "What Are You Listening To?")

Mahler: Symphony No. 7 "Song of the Night"
San Francisco Symphony Orchestra
Michael Tilson Thomas, cond.
SAN FRANCISCO SYMPHONY (Hybrid SACD)

I've read myriad reviews on Amazon and elsewhere of this Grammy-winning recording -- oh, and I've just heard it for the first time this morning before doing so again.  Where the recordings by Levine/CSO (my introduction to the Mahler No. 7 many years ago), Bernstein/NYPO, and more recently Gielen/SWRSO each brought unique perspectives to this thorny work and made for thoroughly entertaining listening from beginning to end; Michael Tilson Thomas and the San Francisco Symphony Orchestra bring a workmanlike adherence to a score in very vivid sound that ultimately becomes an interminable listen.  Yes, as did another reviewer, I became bored!   With all the strange and wonderful things that go on in this work, that absolutely shouldn't happen!

I'm not patient enough to delineate each and every fine point of non-concurrence with my personal sensibility, but I will say that when I listen to the Mahler Seventh, I want to be transported to a netherworld of demons and delights, where the magic of the music lifts you away from your safe little world and brings you back as if you'd just awoken from a phantasmagorical suspension in time. Unfortunately, I didn't get that here; this is simply too plain-faced and sober an interpretation, despite the fine playing and recording.  With the overall length of this symphony, I don't think moderate differences in playing time from performance to performance have much to do with "effectiveness" -- depth of detailing and persuasive interpretation certainly do!

Another Amazon reviewer I read bemoans the gimmicky spotlighting of the recording scheme, that it doesn't sound "natural". Yes, the prominent brass and percussion are often forward balanced with violins seemingly emanating from somewhere "beneath" them! Levine's recording on RCA was also oddly balanced, but I never found it obtrusive in this macabre musical setting. Frankly, such oddities done subtly and purposefully can add to the charm of this work.
"I think the problem with technology is that people use it because it's around.  That is disgusting and stupid!  Please quote me."
- Steve Reich

DavidRoss

(Pasted from "What Are You Listening To?")

What a strange perspective on this disc!  The sensuousness of both performance and sound quality is one of the reasons this recording is among my favorites of the 7th.  I continue to be thrilled and delighted by the MTT/SFS Mahler cycle, and do not think I'm just blinded by partiality to the local band, else these recordings would not likely enjoy the widespread critical acclaim they've received.  I think I'll pop it in the CD transport right now and crank up the amplifier so I can immerse myself in this heady soundworld!
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

Jay F

Quote from: DavidRoss on February 09, 2009, 07:10:20 AM
(Pasted from "What Are You Listening To?")

What a strange perspective on this disc!  The sensuousness of both performance and sound quality is one of the reasons this recording is among my favorites of the 7th.  I continue to be thrilled and delighted by the MTT/SFS Mahler cycle, and do not think I'm just blinded by partiality to the local band, else these recordings would not likely enjoy the widespread critical acclaim they've received.  I think I'll pop it in the CD transport right now and crank up the amplifier so I can immerse myself in this heady soundworld!
As I wrote in the original thread, I, too, love MTT's M7. It and the M3 are my favorites in his cycle.

eyeresist

Moldyoldie, allow me to recomment the famous Tennstedt M7 to you. Plenty of magic and emotion there!

Jay F

Quote from: eyeresist on February 09, 2009, 04:10:17 PM
Moldyoldie, allow me to recomment the famous Tennstedt M7 to you. Plenty of magic and emotion there!
Do you mean the one on EMI or the one from the BBC Legends series? I already have (and love) the EMI, and the BBC version is winging its way across the ocean to me from mdt.

musimath

Quote from: stingo on May 02, 2007, 03:30:52 AM
I'd suggest listening to the Ruckert lieder too.

Specially "Ich bin der Welt...". The Janet Baker - Barbirolli reading is deeply moving.

DavidRoss

Quote from: musimath on February 11, 2009, 12:26:17 PM
Specially "Ich bin der Welt...". The Janet Baker - Barbirolli reading is deeply moving.
That's my fave!  Welcome to GMG, musimath.  You're off to a good start!
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

eyeresist

Quote from: nicht schleppend on February 09, 2009, 07:45:54 PM
Do you mean the one on EMI or the one from the BBC Legends series? I already have (and love) the EMI, and the BBC version is winging its way across the ocean to me from mdt.
I don't know the BBC one. I've been off that series since I bought the Barbirolli M7/Bruckner 9. That M7 has really awful cowbells.

imperfection

How do Mahler fans here like Sinopoli's DG set with the Philharmonia? I recall that Michael Schaffer, a very informed former member (that sounded weird) had very nice things to say about it on RMCR a while ago.


DavidRoss

Quote from: imperfection on February 11, 2009, 07:16:51 PM
How do Mahler fans here like Sinopoli's DG set with the Philharmonia? I recall that Michael Schaffer, a very informed former member (that sounded weird) had very nice things to say about it on RMCR a while ago.
He has also praised Sinopoli's Mahler here.  You do know, don't you, that Michael and "M" (or "M Forever") are one and the same?
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

Lethevich

Quote from: imperfection on February 11, 2009, 07:16:51 PM
How do Mahler fans here like Sinopoli's DG set with the Philharmonia? I recall that Michael Schaffer, a very informed former member (that sounded weird) had very nice things to say about it on RMCR a while ago.



I gave the 7th a try thanks to M's advocacy, and it wasn't just interesting, but very good as well. I haven't heard anyone do the nachtmusik movements like Sinopoli - pure atmosphere, mystery and colour.
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

bhodges

I also like Sinopoli's 7th very much.  Although I don't have the complete set, I have (IIRC) Nos. 2, 5, 7 and 8, and like them all. 

--Bruce