Mahler Mania, Rebooted

Started by Greta, May 01, 2007, 08:06:38 PM

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greg

Quote from: DavidRoss on March 13, 2009, 03:18:29 PM
I think you are right to love it.  When I first heard it, I was amazed by the spiritual repose old Gus seems to have found so late in life after so much anguished striving.  Good on you, mate!
Am I the only who thinks nothing sounds quite like the first movement of the Tenth & the Adagio of the 9th (which is like a continuation)? Just wondering... Seems to me like the most original style of sound he's thought up of, second to maybe the opening movement of the 3rd, which is ridiculous (he did say the world has never heard anything like it, after all). With most of his other stuff, you can hear other composers' attitudes in them, even if not obvious at first.

Cato

Quote from: Gay Cuban Communist on March 13, 2009, 06:43:36 PM
Am I the only who thinks nothing sounds quite like the first movement of the Tenth & the Adagio of the 9th (which is like a continuation)? Just wondering... Seems to me like the most original style of sound he's thought up of, second to maybe the opening movement of the 3rd, which is ridiculous (he did say the world has never heard anything like it, after all). With most of his other stuff, you can hear other composers' attitudes in them, even if not obvious at first.

I commented elsewhere that the Mahler Tenth Adagio is the only possible FInale for Bruckner's Ninth.
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

greg

Quote from: Cato on March 13, 2009, 06:56:21 PM
I commented elsewhere that the Mahler Tenth Adagio is the only possible FInale for Bruckner's Ninth.
I'll have to try listening to it like that one day.  :D

ChamberNut

Quote from: DavidRoss on March 13, 2009, 03:18:29 PM
Whose completion?  I have Cooke's performed by Rattie/BP and Chailly/RCO, and Barshai conducting his own with the German Youth Philharmonic, and prefer the last.

I think you are right to love it.  When I first heard it, I was amazed by the spiritual repose old Gus seems to have found so late in life after so much anguished striving.  Good on you, mate!

The Deryck Cooke performing version 1976/1989, with the 2008 DG recording of VP and Daniel Harding.

Cato

Quote from: Gay Cuban Communist on March 13, 2009, 07:06:13 PM
I'll have to try listening to it like that one day.  :D

Make sure your soul is ready that day!   0:)
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Jay F

Quote from: Gay Cuban Communist on March 13, 2009, 06:43:36 PM
Am I the only who thinks nothing sounds quite like the first movement of the Tenth & the Adagio of the 9th (which is like a continuation)? Just wondering... Seems to me like the most original style of sound he's thought up of, second to maybe the opening movement of the 3rd, which is ridiculous (he did say the world has never heard anything like it, after all). With most of his other stuff, you can hear other composers' attitudes in them, even if not obvious at first.
Because I imprinted on the first movement of M10 coming right after the M9 adagio (see avatar), they have always seemed united, one very logically following the other.

greg

Quote from: nicht schleppend on March 14, 2009, 08:15:27 AM
Because I imprinted on the first movement of M10 coming right after the M9 adagio (see avatar), they have always seemed united, one very logically following the other.
Never noticed it until just now!  :D

Lilas Pastia

The connnection is definitely there, something that can't escape anyone who listens to the Adagio of 10 for the first time (assuming they know the 9th of course). But the M10 Adagio as finale for Bruckner 9 is something I've never considered. Since I have a backlog of B9s to listen to, I'll try it that way :D

greg

I got someone on Mahler today. He keeps asking for some classical- last time, I could only offer some Stravinsky chamber works, and he didn't like- he ended up asking if I had some Bach instead. Today, he asked again, and I had Boulez conducting the Mahler 2nd symphony, so I let him listen. He said he really, really, liked it and he loved how the music gets so loud and then quiet- "it's awesome". Really, though, I'd have to say it's unexpected since everyone thinks he's the dumb one of the class- including me, but I'll have to rethink that now.  ;D

DavidRoss

Quote from: Gay Cuban Communist on March 24, 2009, 11:43:03 AM
I got someone on Mahler today. He keeps asking for some classical- last time, I could only offer some Stravinsky chamber works, and he didn't like- he ended up asking if I had some Bach instead. Today, he asked again, and I had Boulez conducting the Mahler 2nd symphony, so I let him listen. He said he really, really, liked it and he loved how the music gets so loud and then quiet- "it's awesome". Really, though, I'd have to say it's unexpected since everyone thinks he's the dumb one of the class- including me, but I'll have to rethink that now.  ;D
Likes loud and then quiet, eh?  Probably the first time he's ever heard that if all he's familiar with is pop music with the bejeezus compressed out of all dynamic variation.  (Anyone else tickled by the irony that one of the genuine virtues of digital compared with analog is the greater dynamic range, and yet most of today's digital recordings scarcely vary more than 5dB?)
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

greg

Haha, good point- never thought of it like that.

Diletante

I listened to his 3rd symphony for the first time yesterday (from Sinopoli's cycle). I was already familiar with symphonies 1, 2, 4 and 5. From the moment it started I felt uneasy, for some reason it didn't seem like Mahler to me! The first movement sounded like a bunch of disconnected fragments of music for march band. When the snare drum solo kicked in, I got really nervous. "Did Mahler really write this? What the heck is this, it doesn't sound like the other symphonies!".  :o Honestly I'd never felt this nervous when listening to a piece for the first time.

The second movement relaxed me a bit because it sounded more "Mahlerian" to my ears. And the third movement just REEKED of Mahler and calmed me down completely. Not to mention the fifth movement, which seemed to come right out of the fourth symphony (I know it's the other way around, but I was already familiar with the fourth, so...).

Funny thing, I listened to the first movement again this morning and suddenly it made sense and sounded more like him. Weird.
Orgullosamente diletante.

Renfield

The third is funky like that. ;D

imperfection

#773
Quote from: tanuki on March 27, 2009, 10:04:25 AM
I listened to his 3rd symphony for the first time yesterday (from Sinopoli's cycle). I was already familiar with symphonies 1, 2, 4 and 5. From the moment it started I felt uneasy, for some reason it didn't seem like Mahler to me! The first movement sounded like a bunch of disconnected fragments of music for march band. When the snare drum solo kicked in, I got really nervous. "Did Mahler really write this? What the heck is this, it doesn't sound like the other symphonies!".  :o Honestly I'd never felt this nervous when listening to a piece for the first time.

The second movement relaxed me a bit because it sounded more "Mahlerian" to my ears. And the third movement just REEKED of Mahler and calmed me down completely. Not to mention the fifth movement, which seemed to come right out of the fourth symphony (I know it's the other way around, but I was already familiar with the fourth, so...).

Funny thing, I listened to the first movement again this morning and suddenly it made sense and sounded more like him. Weird.

What do you think of the finale? Isn't that some of the most inspiring, heartwarming and soul-stirring music Mahler ever wrote? However, I must say that the ending of Sinopoli's version is not very well done; the tone of the orchestra in the closing bars lack warmth. That is mainly due to overly bright trumpets which may or may not have been the engineer's fault...and the last fermata chord is supposed to be really sustained and rounded off when released, as Mahler specifically says in the score not to abruptly cut the end off. In Sinopoli's version however, the strings don't cut off last and therefore there's no "ring" to the last chord. The whole orchestra cuts off together, therefore it does sound a little sudden and inappropriate for ending such an epic, grandiose movement (and symphony).

Diletante

Quote from: imperfection on March 27, 2009, 10:32:41 AM
What do you think of the finale? Isn't that some of the most inspiring, heartwarming and soul-stirring music Mahler ever wrote?

Oh yes!  :D It reminds me of the finale of Tchaikovsky's Sixth.

Quote from: imperfection on March 27, 2009, 10:32:41 AMHowever, I must say that the ending of Sinopoli's version is not very well done.

I see. Whose version would you recommend?
Orgullosamente diletante.

Renfield

Quote from: tanuki on March 27, 2009, 04:25:16 PM
I see. Whose version would you recommend?

I'm not imperfection, but early Bernstein, early Haitink, and Boulez are all superb, with Abbado/VPO, Gielen and Chailly following closely.

(In my opinion, that is. Although if we count all formats, the Abbado DVD with the Lucerne Festival Orchestra is a must.)

imperfection

Quote from: Renfield on March 27, 2009, 06:37:33 PM
I'm not imperfection, but early Bernstein, early Haitink, and Boulez are all superb, with Abbado/VPO, Gielen and Chailly following closely.

(In my opinion, that is. Although if we count all formats, the Abbado DVD with the Lucerne Festival Orchestra is a must.)

I generally agree with Renfield. Would also like to add the Bernstein DG 3rd, which has a gorgeous and spellbinding finale. If you want a DVD, get the Abbado DVD or the Haitink/BPO. I myself prefer the latter because I simply think it is more epic and grandiose, as opposed to Abbado's lyrical, intimate chamber approach.

Diletante

All right! Thanks for the suggestions, I'll try to get the Bernstein.
Orgullosamente diletante.

imperfection

Quote from: tanuki on March 28, 2009, 09:29:19 PM
All right! Thanks for the suggestions, I'll try to get the Bernstein.

For the 6th, which I gathered you aren't familiar with yet, try Barbirolli for a majestic, grandiose reading that perfectly fits the epic magnitude of the piece. Bernstein's (DG) is an emotional roller coaster also, perhaps as heavy as the former. However, I think the Italian got the heartbreaking Andante just right, especially at one of the climaxes where the harp glissando adds tonal colour to the mix -- a huge block of lush orchestral sound, that is; the recording literally creamed my pants. Definitely one of the great 6ths. If you get it on the Great Recordings of The Century EMI series, it is coupled with Strauss' A Hero's Life too, but I haven't heard that one yet, although it received fantastic reviews from critics and fans alike.

Renfield

Quote from: imperfection on March 29, 2009, 06:40:40 PM
However, I think the Italian got the heartbreaking Andante just right, especially at one of the climaxes where the harp glissando adds tonal colour to the mix -- a huge block of lush orchestral sound, that is; the recording literally creamed my pants.

He was a Londoner, but yes, the recording is very good. Alongside the Barbirolli and the DG Bernstein, I'd definitely recommend the Karajan (recently discussed in the Karajan Legacy thread); as well as any Mitropoulos version you can get your hands on, if you don't mind historical sound.

And "for something completely different", have a look at the Boulez.