Mahler Mania, Rebooted

Started by Greta, May 01, 2007, 08:06:38 PM

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Renfield

#800
Quote from: Bahamut on April 18, 2009, 07:58:40 PM
Excellent- thanks!  :) I'll have to catch that Klemperer.

Ok... i've searched youtube and this is supposedly the DG recording... it doesn't say anywhere on the page but has a cover of that recording on the 3rd video in the set. It sounds like the same tempo as the other, though- maybe it is?  ???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjuWwc-H4IY&feature=PlayList&p=62AE77D835E93C9F&index=0&playnext=1

Also, what do you think of Karajan's recording? This is the one that I've based my observations on...

And... out of sheer curiosity, have you heard Bruno Walter?
phewww i'm done.... i won't bother you any more, I promise.  8)

(fingers crossed behind my back)

Right, one by one:


Firstly, yes, that one seems to be the Concertgebouw recording (in the quoted link).


Secondly, which Karajan? The studio version is cooler, and slightly more 'clinical' (but not necessarily less effective) than the live. And of course, suffice it to say, I quite adore both; but Karajan's reading falls under the 'consistent individual interpretation'* class of Mahler 9ths.

Which is not to denigrate it: it's still my favourite Mahler 9th! In combining suavity, compassion, the most heartfelt irk, and that understanding nod towards it all before the end, i.e. the 'Zen' (so to speak) reading of the 9th, I don't think Karajan has a match.

However, this is still the Mahler 9th we're talking about. It's easily complex enough (understatement) a piece to warrant a number of different possible interpretations, views, 'takes', call-them-what-you-will. And Walter, since you mentioned him, sits in the opposite bank (compared to Karajan): his reading - especially in the 1938 incarnation, which you need to hear if you haven't already - is, for lack of a better term, on fire.

And his much later Columbia recording is also worth hearing, even if not quite as definitive IMO. :)


*As opposed to great readings like Klemperer's, that appear to aim more towards fully highlighting the musical content, without any explicit point-making. Of course, you may question whether this distinction exists; still, compare Chailly to late Bernstein (another 'point-making' reading)!


[Bother at will, now that I'm available; if I suddenly stop responding, you may have to wait for a couple of weeks. ;)]

greg

#801
Quote
Secondly, which Karajan?
This one:



Quote
Which is not to denigrate it: it's still my favourite Mahler 9th!
lol! That's the only one I'm very much familiar with- if I just decided to play the whole symphony in my head right now, every note would be Karajan's.
I have to say, Karajan does such an excellent job with clarity, too- even during the messy passages. You can hear everything. It's hard to imagine anyone "beating" him. But I have heard things in the two other recordings I've heard recently (Bernstein, Chailly) which have caught my attention in a positive way, even though they sound different from Karajan- just proving your point that the symphony is highly interpretable, eh?  8)


QuoteAnd Walter, since you mentioned him, sits in the opposite bank (compared to Karajan): his reading - especially in the 1938 incarnation, which you need to hear if you haven't already - is, for lack of a better term, on fire.
I'll think of fire when I listen.  ;D

Diletante

#802
Listened to the 6th for the first time last night (again from Sinopoli's cycle). Very nice, most of it sounded "typically Mahler" to my ears. There was a part where the music got quiet and you could hear seemingly random percussion in the background (in the 3rd movement, I think). I thought that part sounded really modern, which is a plus in my book.  :)

Big surprise in the end, though. I was listening to those very quiet and entrancing notes in the end. I got very close to the speakers, trying to catch all the fading notes. I was about to turn the volume up so as to not miss any, when BAM!!!!  :o.

Made me jump all right!  ;D

Orgullosamente diletante.

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: tanuki on April 25, 2009, 11:54:41 AM
Listened to the 6th for the first time last night (again from Sinopoli's cycle). Very nice, most of it sounded "typically Mahler" to my ears. There was a part where the music got quiet and you could hear seemingly random percussion in the background (in the 3rd movement, I think). I thought that part sounded really modern, which is a plus in my book.  :)

Big surprise in the end, though. I was listening to those very quiet and entrancing notes in the end. I got very close to the speakers, trying to catch all the fading notes. I was about to turn the volume up so as to not miss any, when BAM!!!!  :o.

Made me jump all right!  ;D

;D :D ;D  ...yeah, that moment will do that to you. I remember playing my first recording the first time (I'd already heard it live, in Cleveland, Szell conducting). I knew what to expect...but the cat didn't! She was so startled she jumped straight up a good five feet  :D  Actually, that moment still takes me by surprise--the emotional intensity--every single time I hear it.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Lilas Pastia

I've always likened that descent to the threshold of audibility to the reverse of Fafner's awakening in Siegfried. More power to Mahler to have followed it by that frightening sonic explosion. Every good version I've heard makes more of that moment than the two hammerblows combined. Truly one of the most startling effects in all music, equalled only by the savage bass drum thwacks in Verdi's Requiem (Dies Irae).

Something simply unheard of, it punches you in the solar plexus.

greg

Was there ever a more 'Nihilistic' work written before the 6th?

Sergeant Rock

#806
Quote from: Bahamut on April 26, 2009, 05:50:50 PM
Was there ever a more 'Nihilistic' work written before the 6th?

Perhaps certain viol consort music of the 17th century (Purcell comes to mind) but other than that I can't think of any music written before the 20th century whose message is so hopelessly dark. Whenever I've heard the Sixth live, the applause seems incongruous. What are we clapping for? our certain death? I think the audience should remain silent after the final movement, and stay silent until they're in a place where large whiskeys are served  ;D

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

The new erato

The Gergiev 8th got a stunning review in the latest IRR issue. Anybody heard it?

Florestan

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on April 28, 2009, 01:31:49 AM
Perhaps certain viol consort music of the 17th century (Purcell comes to mind) but other than that I can't think of any music written before the 20th century whose message is so hopelessly dark.

Mozart's C minor Piano Concerto KV 491 fits the bill for me.
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Renfield

Quote from: erato on April 28, 2009, 02:29:27 AM
The Gergiev 8th got a stunning review in the latest IRR issue. Anybody heard it?

As often with releases of this sort (and as I'm collecting the Gergiev cycle), I have it, but have not listened to it yet. In fact, I hadn't even listened to his 2nd until about last week, so I wouldn't necessarily hold my breath over my thoughts on it, if I were you. ;)

P.S.: That having been said, Gergiev's treatment of the choral part of the 2nd bodes very well indeed for the 8th.

greg

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on April 28, 2009, 01:31:49 AM
Perhaps certain viol consort music of the 17th century (Purcell comes to mind) but other than that I can't think of any music written before the 20th century whose message is so hopelessly dark. Whenever I've heard the Sixth live, the applause seems incongruous. What are we clapping for? our certain death? I think the audience should remain silent after the final movement, and stay silent until they're in a place where large whiskeys are served  ;D

Sarge
I think you'd agree with the guy who wrote the top comment on this page  ;D :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QheCUBmKD5s&feature=related

(a performance I really like, btw, although I don't like his occasional halt at the end of bars with notes connecting to phrases to the next measure...)

jlaurson

FYI

http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=518

Mahler, Introduction 1.1

Much more to follow when WETA starts its (as yet not scheduled) Mahler-Month.

Jay F

#812
Quote from: jlaurson on April 30, 2009, 05:02:19 AM
FYI

http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=518

Mahler, Introduction 1.1

Much more to follow when WETA starts its (as yet not scheduled) Mahler-Month.
What a lovely, wonderful article, Jens.

Do you know if other PBS stations will be broadcasting Mahler Month?

DavidRoss

Quote from: nicht schleppend on April 30, 2009, 05:20:54 AM
What a lovely, wonderful article, Jens.
I particularly enjoyed this line: "'Determination' in Mahler is like a hammer hitting a pool of mercury."  I also agree that Mahler is incomprehensible without some understanding of fin-de-siècle Vienna.
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

Jay F

Quote from: DavidRoss on April 30, 2009, 07:54:32 AM
I particularly enjoyed this line: "'Determination' in Mahler is like a hammer hitting a pool of mercury."  I also agree that Mahler is incomprehensible without some understanding of fin-de-siècle Vienna.
I come by it genetically, I guess, my love of Mahler. My mother's father was born in fin-de-siècle Vienna.

jlaurson

#815
Quote from: nicht schleppend on April 30, 2009, 05:20:54 AM
Quote from: jlaurson on April 30, 2009, 05:02:19 AM
FYI
http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=518
Mahler, Introduction 1.1
Much more to follow when WETA starts its (as yet not scheduled) Mahler-Month.

What a lovely, wonderful article, Jens.

Do you know if other PBS stations will be broadcasting Mahler Month?

Thanks for the kind words.

That's the first 1/3 of just the introduction to a 40 page piece on my favorite versions of the symphonies... snipped off at the end according to word-count. But it works surprisingly well as a stand-alone, I would like to think.

----

I don't know of any other stations that will do a Mahler month... this is solely a local decision if & when it happens. And if so, it'll be because WETA's program manager has built up his "drive time credits" with tenacious Vivaldi- and Spohr-playing to the point where he can indulge us Mahler-nuts thus and thereby go a quite a bit beyond the established consensus of what works well on radio and what doesn't.

I, for one, very much hope that if Mahler month commences, it will be a success and that people will actually congratulate the station for doing that in a time when classical music on radio in the US (outside a few metropolitan areas, perhaps) is not only on the decline but also moving toward greater blandness and predictability. We'll see how things work out. I have my hopes up for some time this summer, maybe.


Sergeant Rock

Quote from: jlaurson on April 30, 2009, 05:02:19 AM
http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=518
Mahler, Introduction 1.1
Much more to follow when WETA starts its (as yet not scheduled) Mahler-Month.

"...there are moments in his symphonies where the music seems more disoriented than a butterfly with ADD."

;D :D ;D ...wonderfully descriptive metaphor. Looking forward to the rest of the article.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Jay F

Quote from: jlaurson on April 30, 2009, 02:12:23 PM
I don't know of any other stations that will do a Mahler month... this is solely a local decision if & when it happens. And if so, it'll be because WETA's program manager has built up his "drive time credits" with tenacious Vivaldi- and Spohr-playing to the point where he can indulge us Mahler-nuts thus and thereby go a quite a bit beyond the established consensus of what works well on radio and what doesn't.

I, for one, very much hope that if Mahler month commences, it will be a success and that people will actually congratulate the station for doing that in a time when classical music on radio in the US (outside a few metropolitan areas, perhaps) is not only on the decline but also moving toward greater blandness and predictability. We'll see how things work out. I have my hopes up for some time this summer, maybe.

I have e-mailed my local classical station (WQED) your article and the Carnegie Hall announcement. I hope they'll be interested enough. WQED went nuts over Mahler a few years back when the Pittsburgh Symphony went to Rome and played M2 for the Pope. But mostly it's Baroque and the Single-Movement Movement that get airtime here (though they do air a considerable portion of chamber music I enjoy).

Jay F

#818
I'm listening to a M6 I almost never play, the one by Mitropolous. I didn't like it much when I first bought it, dismissing the first movement as "slow" (Bernstein's on CBS is my favorite, and my imprint, version, so...), but today, over headphones, I'm getting more of a sense of tragedy from Mitropolous than I usually perceive from Bernstein's. It's more the theme for Totalitarianism Takes Over than other versions, at least the first movement. It's more bleak-sounding all over, I'd say, than Bernstein's. I don't think I like it more, but it's a lot more interesting than I orginally thought.

jlaurson

Quote from: nicht schleppend on May 10, 2009, 11:25:40 AM
I'm listening to a M6 I almost never play, the one by Mitropolous. I didn't like it much when I first bought it, dismissing the first movement as "slow" (Bernstein's on CBS is my favorite, and my imprint, version, so...), but today, over headphones, I'm getting more of a sense of tragedy from Mitropolous than I usually perceive from Bernstein's. It's more the theme for Totalitarianism Takes Over than other versions, at least the first movement. It's more bleak-sounding all over, I'd say, than Bernstein's. I don't think I like it more, but it's a lot more interesting than I orginally thought.

Mitropolous in the 6th (WDR for me, not NYP--which I don't have) is, for me, about as good as it gets (sound quality apart, obviously). Bleak, craggy, harsh, brutal... relentless and unforgiving. Arrrgh! Barbirolli is of the same mold.