Mahler Mania, Rebooted

Started by Greta, May 01, 2007, 08:06:38 PM

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Jay F

Quote from: jlaurson on May 10, 2009, 02:53:40 PM
Mitropolous in the 6th (WDR for me, not NYP--which I don't have) is, for me, about as good as it gets (sound quality apart, obviously). Bleak, craggy, harsh, brutal... relentless and unforgiving. Arrrgh! Barbirolli is of the same mold.

Nice review of the Barbirolli. Has anyone heard all of the four EMI versions? http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_m_9_9?url=search-alias%3Dpopular&field-keywords=mahler+6+barbirolli&x=0&y=0&sprefix=mahler+6+

jlaurson

Quote from: nicht schleppend on May 10, 2009, 08:06:33 PM
Nice review of the Barbirolli. Has anyone heard all of the four EMI versions? http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_m_9_9?url=search-alias%3Dpopular&field-keywords=mahler+6+barbirolli&x=0&y=0&sprefix=mahler+6+

3 out of 4. The GroC is the best, SQ-wise (least noise, at least)... but with B's kind of performance, the not-HiFi sound of the Rouge et Noir kind of adds to the atmosphere. Even after knowing the difference I'd not actually go out of my way to replace it (or the gEMIni) with the GRoC. And of course the GRoC has re-re-arranged the movements to fit Barbirolli's intentions (and again-Mahler standard) of "Andante-Scherzo". Barbirolli's intentions notwithstanding, it's just the kind of performance that yearns for "Scherzo-Andante", so that's a disadvantage for me. (Sure we could program our CD players to get around that, but really: who ever does that? CD in, click play, listen. We're all(*) lazy.)

Cheers,

jfl


* Everyone to whom this doesn't apply is hereby exempted. Don't waste a post on telling me that you are not lazy, please.

Renfield

I admire Mitropoulos' Cologne 6th a lot, as well. It's uniquely crushing, in the brutal sense of the word, among the (fairly many) 6ths I'm acquainted with. But I also have the New York broadcast from the recent Music & Arts "Mitropoulos Edition", which I do need to spin before long!

Jay F

Something else I listened to again last night, and find very interesting, is Levine's 7th. It's another one where you get to stop and smell the roses, i.e., all those interesting little details with which Mahler packed this symphony. Excluding the last movement, it's hard for me to understand why this symphony is considered the least, or the worst, of the ten. I like it better -- have always liked it better -- than most of the rest. Of course, it took me no time at all to fall in love with Mahler's music in general, twenty-some years ago.

MDL

Flicking through the Southbank brochure last night, I realised that during the winter2009/spring2010 season, there are four performances of Mahler's Resurrection Symphony (two from Jurowski, one each from Inbal and Alsop). Love Maher 2 as I do, I still can't help thinking that that's too much of a good thing.

bhodges

Quote from: MDL on May 13, 2009, 01:17:19 PM
Flicking through the Southbank brochure last night, I realised that during the winter2009/spring2010 season, there are four performances of Mahler's Resurrection Symphony (two from Jurowski, one each from Inbal and Alsop). Love Maher 2 as I do, I still can't help thinking that that's too much of a good thing.

That does seem a bit excessive!  ???

--Bruce

karlhenning

Here; I knew this would happen!  Bruce finally gets a day off from the Mahler-a-Go-Go, and he completely shuts down!  ;D

MDL

Quote from: bhodges on May 13, 2009, 01:33:56 PM
That does seem a bit excessive!  ???

--Bruce

Of the four (because it would be stupid not to catch at least one), I think I'll go for the second Jurowski/LPO performance, which is coupled with Kurtag's astounding Stele. The Inbal and Alsop performances are with the Philharmonia.

Lilas Pastia

The Bonghartz 6th is back at BRO  !!

QuoteLabel: WEITBLICK
BRO Code: 127153
Label Cat. #: SSS 0053-2
Mahler, Symphony #6. (Leipzig Radio Orchestra/ Heinz Bongartz. Rec. 6/30/69)    
Add to Cart
Price: $6.99

Don't be misled by the relatively unknown orchestra, conductor, recording date and label.  It's one of the great, defining performances of the work. It should please those who swear by Barbirolli's pesante version but secretly wish he'd be slightly more aggressive.

greg

#829
I am reeeeallly liking Tennstedt. Listened to the first three symphonies, and they are some of the best I've heard. It was odd to hear the Finale of the 3rd being played so fast, but it seemed to work great, and had just as much punch as any other recording. The brass sounds so perfect and clear in that movement, too.

Also, finished listening to Kaplan's Mahler 2nd I was talking about and also listened to Kondrashin's 6th and Ormandy's 10th. Well, the Kondrashin was amusing, though not much else (being one of the very fastest 6ths out there) and Ormandy's 10th is extremely well-played. I haven't heard better middle movements than this, and they're played so well that the performance almost convinces me to like them. The opening movement, though, is just way too fast for my taste, so I'd still take Chailly over Ormandy just because of that.

And I finished listening to Kubelik's set. The set is okay, but my favorite was definitely the 4th. I thought there couldn't be a recording better than Szell's out there until I heard this one. Szell is more danceable and precise, but Kubelik just seems more fun.

imperfection

Quote from: Bahamut on May 18, 2009, 09:57:24 AM
I am reeeeallly liking Tennstedt. Listened to the first three symphonies, and they are some of the best I've heard. It was odd to hear the Finale of the 3rd being played so fast, but it seemed to work great, and had just as much punch as any other recording. The brass sounds so perfect and clear in that movement, too.

Also, finished listening to Kaplan's Mahler 2nd I was talking about and also listened to Kondrashin's 6th and Ormandy's 10th. Well, the Kondrashin was amusing, though not much else (being one of the very fastest 6ths out there) and Ormandy's 10th is extremely well-played. I haven't heard better middle movements than this, and they're played so well that the performance almost convinces me to like them. The opening movement, though, is just way too fast for my taste, so I'd still take Chailly over Ormandy just because of that.

And I finished listening to Kubelik's set. The set is okay, but my favorite was definitely the 4th. I thought there couldn't be a recording better than Szell's out there until I heard this one. Szell is more danceable and precise, but Kubelik just seems more fun.

Interesting...to me, the finale of the 3rd is the movement that practically begs for a Celibidachean interpretation: broad, majestic, spiritual; but above all, utterly beautiful and soulful.

Brünnhilde forever

Celibidache conducted only one Mahler: Kindertotenlieder; his opinion of Mahler: "He didn't know when to stop."  :o

ChamberNut

Last weekend, I watched the DVD of Mahler's 9th WSO Andrey Boreyko (Spring 2006) (not commercially available).

Incredible performance!  And most fascinating was watching the 20+ minutes of footage on the rehearsal of Symphony No. 9.  Very, very interesting, and incredibly insightful for a numbskull like me.  It was riveting to listen to Boreyko trying to draw exactly out of the various musicians what he was interpretting from the score.  Seeing that is making me want to attend every rehearsal of all the performances in the future I'd be seeing!  ;D


greg

Quote from: imperfection on May 19, 2009, 08:57:43 PM
Interesting...to me, the finale of the 3rd is the movement that practically begs for a Celibidachean interpretation: broad, majestic, spiritual; but above all, utterly beautiful and soulful.
I think we have the opposite taste in recordings!  :D

When I think about it, there may be an explanation to my preference. The harmonies are so simple in this movement that when played very slow (like every version I've heard until now), it just ends up sounding bland and boring.
Compared to, say, the Adagio of the 10th, which is much more harmonically complex, it needs to be extremely slow for me to work. So, I guess to explain what works for me when it comes to Mahler Adagios is kinda like a balance of two things- tempo and harmonic complexity.

It just sounds like all the lines sing instead of just create some type of atmosphere. The tempo seems nervous and like it's about to break up at times to very dramatic effect, and it does get very slow at key moments to convey the atmosphere. Other recordings sound like they have only atmosphere- so this recording just sounds more dynamic, since I hear both.

Wilhelm Richard

Lost Mahler symphonies?
(From Egon Gartenberg Mahler: The Man and His Music

QuoteThe musicologist Dr. Paul Stefan noted that: "Mengelberg felt that the Mahler First Symphony exhibited such perfection that it had not been a first. His conjecture was borne out when he discovered four youthful symphonies of Mahler in the archives of Baroness Weber, the wife of Carl Maria von Weber's grandson, in Dresden. After examination, Mengelberg and [composer] Max von Schilling actually played the scores on the piano, being so fascinated with them that they took all night and did not finish until six in the morning." Nothing further has been heard of these symphonies, and if they existed (and we have no reason to doubt Mengelberg's account) they presumably were destroyed by the British bombing attack on Dresden in 1945.

Anybody know anything else about this?

Renfield

[On the above:]

Fascinating!

I've also wondered, at times, at the stylistic maturity of the first symphony, so it doesn't seem inconceivable to me that this might be the case. It is a hopeful side-effect of the digital era that such archives will not be as easy to destroy, in future times...

DavidRoss

Quote from: Renfield on May 23, 2009, 08:52:07 AMI've also wondered, at times, at the stylistic maturity of the first symphony....
Well, apparently he starting working on this material while in his teens, so by the time of the final version in 1906, he'd been massaging it for 30 years.
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

Renfield

Quote from: DavidRoss on May 23, 2009, 09:13:56 AM
Well, apparently he starting working on this material while in his teens, so by the time of the final version in 1906, he'd been massaging it for 30 years.

The highlighted would also be a very good point on its own, that I wasn't taking into consideration.

jlaurson

Quote from: Renfield on May 23, 2009, 08:52:07 AM
[On the above:]

Fascinating!

I've also wondered, at times, at the stylistic maturity of the first symphony...

Conducting great music, ALL. THE. TIME.?  ;D

And of course fiddling with it over many years and writing some fine music --with vocals and chamber-- prior to that.

DavidRoss

Quote from: jlaurson on May 24, 2009, 05:55:12 AM
Conducting great music, ALL. THE. TIME.?  ;D

And of course fiddling with it over many years and writing some fine music --with vocals and chamber-- prior to that.
He began earning his living as a professional conductor at age twenty.  He was almost thirty when the first performance of the first version was given, at which time he did not call it a symphony, but a "Symphonic Poem in Two Parts."  Four years later, after substantial revisions, he premiered it as a programmatic symphony called Titan.  If you are not already familiar with it, Renfield, you might be interested in Das Klagende Lied, written when he was a student in Vienna.
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher