Mahler Mania, Rebooted

[mahlertitan]

1. What do you think about Mahler's symphonic language and orchestration?

colorful, unique, profoundly moving, fantastic, etc...

2. Do you think he is one of the greatest symphonists of all time?

yes

3. What's your favorite work by him?

The Titan symphony of course

4. Have you been emotionally, spiritually, or even physically overwhelmed by the power of his works?

yes, of course.

[karlhenning]

Gustav needs a thread !!

You didn't like this one? 

[Haffner]

1. What do you think about Mahler's symphonic language and orchestration?

colorful, unique, profoundly moving, fantastic, etc...

MT said it, and very well. I might add the phrase "requiring the listener's attention like few other works of music, but ultimately providing the same kind of aesthetic and entertainment payback that any great novel does"

2. Do you think he is one of the greatest symphonists of all time?

yes

Again, MT has it. I won't be too popular for this opinion, but I find several movements in Mahler's Symphonies and Song Cycles which involve, impress, and effect me far more profoundly than the Symphonic works of Beethoven...or even Mozart.


3. What's your favorite work by him?

Symphonies 3, 4, 6, and 9, und Das Lied Von Der Erde



4. Have you been emotionally, spiritually, or even physically overwhelmed by the power of his works?

Abso-rootin-tootely-utely. The 3rd, 9th, and DLVDE in particular. Remarkable achievements.

[Bonehelm]

You didn't like this one? 

Sorry Karl, didn't see this thread since it was on the 4th page.

[Sergeant Rock]

1. What do you think about Mahler's symphonic language and orchestration?

MT said it: unique. And I'll add, instantly recognizable. I'm astounded by Mahler's Titan: where did it come from? Like the Symphonie fantastique, it seems to have been self-generated, sprung to life fully formed with not a single classical precedent (lots of folk and pop music precedents though). No wonder it puzzled, disturbed, even infuriated the first listeners.

I love Mahler's orchestration, particularly his use of low brass, piercing woodwind, and percussion. His symphonies are fun to watch: the Third employs a full battery of percussion and needs seven players minimum. But it's the subtle percussive effects that are most intriguing: the soft swoosh of the cymbals in the Nachtmusik of the Seventh, for example. Even the non-percussive instruments sometimes play percussively: Mahler asks the violin section to wack the body of their instruments with their bows in the buildup to the climax of the Second Symphony's first movement development (just before the recapitulation). It's a really frightening sound that increases the tension greatly. (Unfortunately, in too many recordings, that effect is barely audible: listen to Kaplan/Vienna to hear how it should sound.)

Another thing I love about Mahler's sound is the Klezmer influence. I was listening to Kindertotenlieder the other day and again heard the wailing Klezmer clarinet. Striking sound, and wonderful, and immeasurably sad.


2. Do you think he is one of the greatest symphonists of all time?

Without a doubt.


3. What's your favorite work by him?

Just one??? Okay, the Sixth..but there's not a single work of his I don't love, including that wonderful piano quartet movement, written when he was a student.

4. Have you been emotionally, spiritually, or even physically overwhelmed by the power of his works?


Emotionally, oh yes. The bastard always gets to me.   Physically, yeah, definitely...so much so that I have to be careful nowadays. I have a chronic medical condition and I can't let myself get too carried away.

Spiritually? I don't know...I don't know what that means really. When I break down my feelings and response to the music, I end up with a lot of emotional and intellectual terms. The same thing happens during a church service. I can't really say I've had a spiritual moment.

Sarge

[Bonehelm]

1. What do you think about Mahler's symphonic language and orchestration?

MT said it: unique. And I'll add, instantly recognizable. I'm astounded by Mahler's Titan: where did it come from? Like the Symphonie fantastique, it seems to have been self-generated, sprung to life fully formed with not a single classical precedent (lots of folk and pop music precedents though). No wonder it puzzled, disturbed, even infuriated the first listeners.

I love Mahler's orchestration, particularly his use of low brass, piercing woodwind, and percussion. His symphonies are fun to watch: the Third employs a full battery of percussion and needs seven players minimum. But it's the subtle percussive effects that are most intriguing: the soft swoosh of the cymbals in the Nachtmusik of the Seventh, for example. Even the non-percussive instruments sometimes play percussively: Mahler asks the violin section to wack the body of their instruments with their bows in the buildup to the climax of the Second Symphony's first movement development (just before the recapitulation). It's a really frightening sound that increases the tension greatly. (Unfortunately, in too many recordings, that effect is barely audible: listen to Kaplan/Vienna to hear how it should sound.)

Another thing I love about Mahler's sound is the Klezmer influence. I was listening to Kindertotenlieder the other day and again heard the wailing Klezmer clarinet. Striking sound, and wonderful, and immeasurably sad.


2. Do you think he is one of the greatest symphonists of all time?

Without a doubt.


3. What's your favorite work by him?

Just one??? Okay, the Sixth..but there's not a single work of his I don't love, including that wonderful piano quartet movement, written when he was a student.

4. Have you been emotionally, spiritually, or even physically overwhelmed by the power of his works?


Emotionally, oh yes. The bastard always gets to me.   Physically, yeah, definitely...so much so that I have to be careful nowadays. I have a chronic medical condition and I can't let myself get too carried away.

Spiritually? I don't know...I don't know what that means really. When I break down my feelings and response to the music, I end up with a lot of emotional and intellectual terms. The same thing happens during a church service. I can't really say I've had a spiritual moment.

Sarge

Thanks for the detailed input Sarge, and spiritually is like...well me for example, first time hearing his 2nd symphony almost converted me to Christianity...

[Haffner]

Thanks for the detailed input Sarge, and spiritually is like...well me for example, first time hearing his 2nd symphony almost converted me to Christianity...

Mahler's 3rd and 9th affirmed my own faith.

[Greta]

I just got a laugh! I got Karajan's live 9th on DG and looked at the track titles, and it actually says for some sections "Horns", "Brass", "Clarinets"...I guess because those smaller sections don't have specific tempo names. How funny! Those are about as good as I do for the signposts in my head when I'm listening myself.  

Wow, the 9th is absolutely transcendent. And it's really forward looking to the modern era, isn't it? Is this the one Schoenberg admired the most? I can definitely see why.

The 1st mvmt. shares some things in common with the 4th's Adagio and a little with the 5th's Adagietto, but also is interspersed with moments of sweeping chaos where he dances at the very edge of tonality. That thick mesh of polytonal writing where all the lines are moving at once, after the first big cries (Allegro risoluto), and those spooky brass clusters following. Incredible. This REALLY makes me wonder what he would've written if he'd not died young. I feel like studying this score is a black hole you could fall into. Such extremely complex and sophisticated writing!

I had to come back to edit this to say, it's really so affecting the way it vacillates between hope and despair, with pure bewilderment thrown in between. Almost painful at times. More than in any I feel here he's stuck in the nebulous place between two worlds, looking fondly back, despairing at going, and contemplating the beyond he's going to with this awed wonder and breathless confused mystery, (in the Wie von anfang and Lento!) I keep coming back in this mvmt. to those themes in his 4th and 5th Adagios, then he was gazing up at Heaven, but now it's this alternately scary, breathtaking beautiful reality. And when you consider the links between "I Am Lost to the World" and the 5th Adagietto, and the way he twists and distorts that theme in the middle of the Wie von anfang. I feel he's journeying down the tunnel towards the light, torn and unsure, and finally he comes to terms with it in the final minutes, the angels take him by the hand and say, "It's okay." The flute and violin solos...the angels' comforting voices...

And this is just the first movement!  I listened to this symphony only once before and it was just overwhelming, I knew I needed time, a lot of time, to come back to it, and finally here I am.

[Haffner]

I just got a laugh! I got Karajan's live 9th on DG and looked at the track titles, and it actually says for some sections "Horns", "Brass", "Clarinets"...I guess because those smaller sections don't have specific tempo names. How funny! Those are about as good as I do for the signposts in my head when I'm listening myself.  

Wow, the 9th is absolutely transcendent. And it's really forward looking to the modern era, isn't it? Is this the one Schoenberg admired the most? I can definitely see why.

You got an excellent recording. Just wait until the 3rd movement supa-dupa-fuga and the incomparable 4th movement hit you! JA! Great stuff!

[Bonehelm]

I'm planning on buying one more M8 on top of my Kubelik and Bertini set, because I'm that addicted to symphony of a thousand.

Here is what I want in my M8:

1. Earth-shattering power 
2. Intense, overwhelming endings in both movements
3. Strong organ sound
4. Clear, crisp details
5. Efficient use of rubato, with lots of emotion

That's about it. Let the game begin. 

[bhodges]

Well, my favorite is with Chailly, but with several caveats: the CD was made from live recordings, but Jane Eaglen's voice was added later.  Also, Chailly is a bit slower in this piece, as he is in some of his other Mahler symphonies.  To me it works beautifully, increasing the weight and grandeur, but those who like faster versions (say, Solti's) probably won't go for this one. 

So that said, this recording is quite amazing, both in performance and sound quality.  (I just got some splendid new Sennheiser headphones and can't wait to test this recording on them.)  I especially like the organ in the Concertgebouw, a grand old instrument with a huge sound -- no mistaking the entrances of this!  The soloists, choruses and orchestra are all excellent, and Chailly has an opera lover's sense of pacing and drama.



--Bruce

[Bunny]

I'm planning on buying one more M8 on top of my Kubelik and Bertini set, because I'm that addicted to symphony of a thousand.

Here is what I want in my M8:

1. Earth-shattering power 
2. Intense, overwhelming endings in both movements
3. Strong organ sound
4. Clear, crisp details
5. Efficient use of rubato, with lots of emotion

That's about it. Let the game begin. 

Solti

[Bonehelm]

Thanks for the recommendations from both of you. 

[Lilas Pastia]

I like Neeme Järvi's live Stockholm account. It's of the slam-bang persuasion, in superb, rock-solid  sound. IMO it fills all your requirements.
You can buy the download at eclassical for just 2.98$

Better soloists can be heard on the Solti version, which is pretty much in the same mould. Tension sags a bit in part 2 ,though.

Watch out for the new DG by Boulez: it should kill most competitors (to judge from an earlier BBC release).

[PerfectWagnerite]

Solti for me also. Beautifully recorded and sung, with the CSO in it's peak form.

[Bonehelm]

Would you guys be kind enough to tell me which Solti in particular? I just want to make sure I get the right set. Thanks 

[Lilas Pastia]

There's only one. It's on Decca but you may find it under various guises. It's been reissued a few times.

[Bonehelm]

There's only one. It's on Decca but you may find it under various guises. It's been reissued a few times.

Thanks. I think you mean this:

for the complete box and

for the 8th. Right? 

[Sergeant Rock]

Would you guys be kind enough to tell me which Solti in particular? I just want to make sure I get the right set. Thanks 

This one

I'm with Bruce. Chailly is my current favorite and would make an interesting interpretive contrast to the two you own now.

I heard Boulez conduct it live in Berlin a few months ago. His recording is definitely on my wishlist.

Sarge

[stingo]

As much as I respect Bruce's and Sarge's opinions on matters musical, I just cannot get into Chailly's M8. As I've beaten a dead horse before, it sounds like a chamber version of the 8th symphony to me. I will have to give it another try to hear what the others were hearing. That said, I think Tennstedt's is a more profound reading, Solti's more ecstatic and Rattle's somewhere in between. I could easily listen to any of the three, but if forced to choose, I'd pick the Rattle but only by the smallest of margins.