Mahler Mania, Rebooted

Started by Greta, May 01, 2007, 08:06:38 PM

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karlhenning

(* sigh *) I'm feelin' the love here  8)

Brünnhilde forever

Quote from: DavidRoss on May 30, 2009, 05:41:27 AM
I've not heard any of Gergiev's Mahler, thinking the two go together like lobsters and motor oil.

;D :D ;D 8)  :-*

Voted the post of the year!

Wanderer

Quote from: DavidRoss on May 30, 2009, 05:41:27 AM
Of course it's a case of contempt prior to investigation, but I've not heard any of Gergiev's Mahler, thinking the two go together like lobsters and motor oil.

Or labdanum and biscotti?  ;D

ChamberNut

Quote from: DavidRoss on May 30, 2009, 05:41:27 AM
Of course it's a case of contempt prior to investigation, but I've not heard any of Gergiev's Mahler, thinking the two go together like lobsters and motor oil.

:'( There goes my BBQ plans for tonight.

Brünnhilde forever

Voted running nose to nose with crustaceans and vehicle lubricant!  ;D  ;D  ;D

Isn't anybody out there with an appetising remark about this 8th?  ???

bhodges

I wish I could weigh in, but I haven't heard any of Gergiev's Mahler series yet.  Hope to remedy soon. 

--Bruce

Brünnhilde forever

Oh Bruce, Luv, never mind hearing or watching any of the Gergiev Mahler's, just let us hear/read your expert caveling!  ;)

bhodges

 ;D

I did hear Gergiev and the Kirov do the "Resurrection" a few years ago, and liked it.  The playing was sometimes a little on the scrappy side, but Gergiev definitely "got" the emotional core of the piece.

--Bruce

DavidRoss

Quote from: bhodges on May 30, 2009, 10:22:43 AM
I did hear Gergiev and the Kirov do the "Resurrection" a few years ago, and liked it.  The playing was sometimes a little on the scrappy side, but Gergiev definitely "got" the emotional core of the piece.
I'd happily hear Gergiev and the Kirov do almost anything--even Debussy!  But I'm not convinced that the LSO really has the requisite cojones for Mahler (apologies to MTT & Jansons, among others  :-\ ).
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

Renfield

My name is Eugene, and I like Gergiev's Mahler. >:D

Or rather, you could say I appreciate what Gergiev is doing with it. I would never rank Gergiev above the 'usual suspects', but he certainly has an opinion on the pieces (already anathema to some, understandably), and does not hesitate in arguing cohesively for it.

It is certainly a very skewed and somewhat browbeating opinion, but still argued for a) consistently, and b) with impressive musical sensitivity (I'd say), compared to consistent-but-bland Solti, for example. Gergiev's 7th is a good case in point: it tramples over a number of nuances in the score, but it's like a proof: it seems to declare "I will show X and Y", and proceeds to do so.

Again, I am not claiming this sort of 'teleological', ends-before-means Mahler should be to everyone's taste, but I have a point of being likely to accept a position cogently and consistently argued for, and musical opinions are no different. :)


Rewinding the thread slightly, due to my not having been available to respond earlier:


The reason I have heard little Mahler beyond his complete symphonic works (note: not the integral symphonic works, I mean his symphonic works that are complete - that is, not the 10th symphony) is down to how I explore symphonic repertory.

Perhaps part of why I like Mahler so much is that I share his predilection for symphonic worlds, vs. symphonic 'exercises'. I am thus inclined to view an entire symphonic oeuvre as a system, the constituents of which (through their being based on their being grouped by the composer himself into one theme, "symphonies") being the individual works that I can thus contextualise and process, or if you will 'understand' within the context of each other.

But once I'm happy with having a general idea of what a specific symphonic oeuvre is (in the loosest possible sense) 'about', I am then equally happy to turn my attention to the works peripheral to it (as I see them).


Also, many thanks again for the Judd recommendation, Mike! I've already added it to my shortlist, and am highly interested in comparing it to the Walter I had mentioned, based on what I gather from your description.

karlhenning

Quote from: bhodges on May 30, 2009, 10:22:43 AM
I did hear Gergiev and the Kirov do the "Resurrection" a few years ago, and liked it.  The playing was sometimes a little on the scrappy side, but Gergiev definitely "got" the emotional core of the piece.

Scrappy playing and Gergiev go together quite well, Bruce  8)

Renfield

Let me just add, if it wasn't clear, that Gergiev seems to clearly impose a rationale to each Mahler symphony, but this is itself a contestable point. I am not saying they necessarily have an 'end' that Gergiev 'finds'! :)

Que

Quote from: jlaurson on May 29, 2009, 11:01:22 AM
...
His recent 4th with the RCO (Haitink's, that is) was stupendous and went straight to the top of my (extensive, more than I should like to admit) list.

I believe I mentioned this before: I have that Haitink/ Schäfer Mahler 4th and it's nice but IMO Haitink first take with Elly Ameling (with the RCO in 1967) still holds firmly 1st place.

Q

Renfield

Quote from: Que on May 30, 2009, 03:16:47 PM
I believe I mentioned this before: I have that Haitink/ Schäfer Mahler 4th and it's nice but IMO Haitink first take with Elly Ameling (with the RCO in 1967) still holds firmly 1st place.

Q

That's the recording from the commonly-available box set, is it not? I'm more and more tempted to invest in it, at some point... Yet I do have the 3rd already, and might be able to complement it with the 9th and Das Lied from the Philips twofer.

And I've heard that the 1st is not his best account. So are the 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th worth going the extra mile?

Que

Quote from: Renfield on May 30, 2009, 03:39:50 PM
That's the recording from the commonly-available box set, is it not? I'm more and more tempted to invest in it, at some point... Yet I do have the 3rd already, and might be able to complement it with the 9th and Das Lied from the Philips twofer.

And I've heard that the 1st is not his best account. So are the 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th worth going the extra mile?

On the 4th, I dare not say - I have separate issues and Haitink redid the 4th later with Roberta Alexander (definitely not recommendable). I believe the exact contents of the box have been discussed on this thread before. As for the rest: the 6th is a dud, no comment on the 8th (never "got" it ::)) But the rest is very nice - the 2nd, 7th and 9th especially.

Q

Renfield

Quote from: Que on May 30, 2009, 03:53:08 PMI believe the exact contents of the box have been discussed on this thread before.

Indeed, I should have checked. And after a brief look I had, it does appear to be the Ameling version in the box set. :)

Diletante

#876
Oh my, I'm listening to Das Lied von der Erde for the first time right now (Sinopoli's cycle) and I'm loving it! Which is weird, because all the other symphonies I know (1 through 6) took me a few listens to like. But so far Das Lied is so beautiful, melodic and instantly likeable! I wonder why no one recommends Mahler beginners to start with Das Lied von der Erde?
Orgullosamente diletante.

Wanderer

Any insights on Eschenbach's Mahler?

Herman

Quote from: tanuki on May 31, 2009, 09:37:03 AM
Oh my, I'm listening to Das Lied von der Erde for the first time right now (Sinopoli's cycle) and I'm loving it! Which is weird, because all the other symphonies I know (1 through 6) took me a few listen to like. But so far Das Lied is so beautiful, melodic and instantly likeable! I wonder why no one recommends Mahler beginners to start with Das Lied von der Erde?

Beginning Mahler with a song cycle is a good idea. Maybe some people think the last song of Das Lied is a little tough.

jlaurson

Quote from: Wanderer on May 31, 2009, 09:57:25 AM
Any insights on Eschenbach's Mahler?

Both in concert and more so, still, on disc (excellent 6th) did he positively surprise me. Quite good, indeed.