Mahler Mania, Rebooted

[Leo K.]

More and more, this recording convinces me of the greatness of this work. The performance is truly engrossing and the orchestral detail is ear candy.

[kishnevi]

More and more, this recording convinces me of the greatness of this work. The performance is truly engrossing and the orchestral detail is ear candy.

Yes, mostly.  The only problem I have with it is James Morris in Part II--he's not the only singer who has chewed his way through that passage (Shirley-Quirk under Solti is another prime example).

[Leo K.]

Yes, mostly.  The only problem I have with it is James Morris in Part II--he's not the only singer who has chewed his way through that passage (Shirley-Quirk under Solti is another prime example).

I actually like what James Morris does in Pt. II. So it goes! The Solti recording, on the other hand, kept me from the M8 for many years.

[stingo]

The first I heard of the MTT M8 was in a preconcert conversation in Philadelphia (where of course they were playing M8). I was initially struck by the level of detail in the recording. I can't comment on the interpretation, but I would it imagine it pretty good based on MTT's comments about it on an NPR interview.

[eyeresist]

Lots of Luscious Listening:

[ASIN]B000JJS7ES[/ASIN]
Siegfried Lorenz sings Kindertotenlieder, 5 Ruckert songs, Wayfarer songs, and four Wunderhorn songs (conducted by Masur, Herbig, Suitner)

[ASIN]B004CN8HWE[/ASIN]
Des Knaben Wunderhorn sung by Sarah Connolly and Dietrich Henschel, conducted by Herreweghe

[ASIN]B0001ZXMPO[/ASIN]
"Songs of youth", three other early songs, and the Wayfarer songs sung by Janet Baker with Geoffrey Parsons at the piano

All received or bought today, the first two because I thought the samples sounded terrific, the last for the sake of completeness, although I'm not really a Baker fan. Any recommendations for alternate "songs of youth" recordings? I don't suppose anyone has orchestrated them....

Are these all the songs there are?

[kishnevi]

[ASIN]B0001ZXMPO[/ASIN]
"Songs of youth", three other early songs, and the Wayfarer songs sung by Janet Baker with Geoffrey Parsons at the piano

All received or bought today, the first two because I thought the samples sounded terrific, the last for the sake of completeness, although I'm not really a Baker fan. Any recommendations for alternate "songs of youth" recordings? I don't suppose anyone has orchestrated them....

Are these all the songs there are?

I just ordered this off of Hyperion's "Please Buy Me" page. So the price now showing (5.6 GBP) may change very soon.  Obviously I can't tell you yet whether it's worth ordering in the first place.

http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/al.asp?al=CDA67392

The EMI and DG Complete Mahler boxes both offer a smorgasbord approach to the "Songs of Youth",  both offering a mix of performances:

DG:  Bernd Weikl/Sinopoli/Philharmonia Orchestra; Anne Sofie von Otter/Ralf Gothoni piano; Thomas Hampson/Luciano Berio/Philharmonia Orchestra; Thomas Hampson/David Lutz piano

not all of the orchestrations involved were by Mahler; the two songs which Berio conducted were orchestrated by him.

EMI:  Christa Ludwig/Gerald Moore piano; Katarina Karneus/Roger Vignoles piano; Brigitte Fassbaender/Irwin Gage piano; Alice Coote/Julius Drake piano; Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau/Daniel Barenboim piano.

I have no idea of the availability of the original releases, or what else was recorded with them by these artist.  The three earliest songs (they are the ones included in the Baker recording), were recorded specially for the EMI box by Ian Bostridge and Antonio Pappano (as pianist) and therefore are not available elsewhere;  in the DG box, they are part of the Hampson/Lutz performances.

[Sergeant Rock]

Any recommendations for alternate "songs of youth" recordings? I don't suppose anyone has orchestrated them....

These six (on the Baker disc) were orchestrated by Harold Byrns. They were coupled with Sinopoli's M2. They are also included in the box of complete Sinopoli Mahler recordings and, as Jeffrey said, in the complete Mahler box by DG.

Frühlingsmorgen
Zu Straßburg auf der Schanz
Ablösung im Sommer
Um schlimme Kinder artig zu machen
Selbstgefühl
Nichtwiedersehen


If you prefer Lucia Popp to Baker, this disc has a nice selection:






Sarge



Sarge

[eyeresist]

I'm back, baby!

Thanks all for the recommendations. I am definitely interested in orchestrations of the early songs, so it looks like Weikl/Sinopoli and Hampson/Berio will be on the list. I only recently realised I have one of the Berio orchestrations in my Rattle Mahler box  - Ablösung im Sommer, appended to the 3rd because that symphony uses its themes. The orchestration of this would not have been too difficult, as Mahler' symphonic model could be used. BTW, the Wunderhorn songs with Keelyside and Rattle are really excellent - I'll have to see if Keelyside has done any more Mahler.

I returned to the 5th symphony this week, and listened through a bunch of versions. What do people think of this one - good, bad, indifferent? It was the first Mahler symphony I really got into, years ago, but now I'm not sure about it.... The outer movements seem a bit banal to me. The first mvt makes a lot of dramatic gestures, but I'm really not sure what it's saying. The finale is a showpiece, but I think I much prefer the "flashy" finale of the 7th, for all that it's almost twice as long.

BTW, Bertini really disproves his slowpoke reputation in this symphony. I think he has the shortest timings since Walter. One of his best. His 3rd, on the other hand, I'm afraid I've had to write off as just too long and too slack.

[ibanezmonster]

The first mvt makes a lot of dramatic gestures, but I'm really not sure what it's saying.

To me, emptiness and angst (in the development section).

[Leo K.]

I'm back, baby!

Thanks all for the recommendations. I am definitely interested in orchestrations of the early songs, so it looks like Weikl/Sinopoli and Hampson/Berio will be on the list. I only recently realised I have one of the Berio orchestrations in my Rattle Mahler box  - Ablösung im Sommer, appended to the 3rd because that symphony uses its themes. The orchestration of this would not have been too difficult, as Mahler' symphonic model could be used. BTW, the Wunderhorn songs with Keelyside and Rattle are really excellent - I'll have to see if Keelyside has done any more Mahler.

I returned to the 5th symphony this week, and listened through a bunch of versions. What do people think of this one - good, bad, indifferent? It was the first Mahler symphony I really got into, years ago, but now I'm not sure about it.... The outer movements seem a bit banal to me. The first mvt makes a lot of dramatic gestures, but I'm really not sure what it's saying. The finale is a showpiece, but I think I much prefer the "flashy" finale of the 7th, for all that it's almost twice as long.

BTW, Bertini really disproves his slowpoke reputation in this symphony. I think he has the shortest timings since Walter. One of his best. His 3rd, on the other hand, I'm afraid I've had to write off as just too long and too slack.

Actually, Bertini's M5 is my top choice. Also, Haitink's RCO (Phillips) and Bernstein's VPO (DG) helps make the M5 make sense. It is a very difficult work to enjoy, to be honest, but as a concept, it may be one of Mahler's most intriguing works. I love it, but it had to grow on me. It literally took years.

[madaboutmahler]

I returned to the 5th symphony this week, and listened through a bunch of versions. What do people think of this one - good, bad, indifferent? It was the first Mahler symphony I really got into, years ago, but now I'm not sure about it.... The outer movements seem a bit banal to me. The first mvt makes a lot of dramatic gestures, but I'm really not sure what it's saying. The finale is a showpiece, but I think I much prefer the "flashy" finale of the 7th, for all that it's almost twice as long.

BTW, Bertini really disproves his slowpoke reputation in this symphony. I think he has the shortest timings since Walter. One of his best. His 3rd, on the other hand, I'm afraid I've had to write off as just too long and too slack.

The 5th symphony was the first Mahler symphony I heard in full, along with the 4th symphony. They were both programmed in a BBC Prom concert, the performers being the World Orchestra for Peace conducted by Gergiev. It was a wonderful concert, and it was really the 5th symphony that made the greater impression on me, the 4th required a few listenings for me to fully understand it I suppose... But the 5th I loved from that very first time I heard it and I still love it very much now. Sure, it may not be quite as powerful or passionate as the symphonies to follow (my favourites!) but it is still an excellent piece IMHO, and I love it very much as I do all the Mahler symphonies. It's the inner movements that I love particularly.

In terms of recordings, mine has remained the RCO/Chailly recording. I am still yet to start the Bertini cycle although it is there waiting in my collection....

[bhodges]

I returned to the 5th symphony this week, and listened through a bunch of versions. What do people think of this one - good, bad, indifferent? It was the first Mahler symphony I really got into, years ago, but now I'm not sure about it.... The outer movements seem a bit banal to me. The first mvt makes a lot of dramatic gestures, but I'm really not sure what it's saying. The finale is a showpiece, but I think I much prefer the "flashy" finale of the 7th, for all that it's almost twice as long.

When I hear the Fifth (in a good performance) I think it's my favorite Mahler symphony, and the final movement might be my favorite Mahler movement of all. Of course, then I hear No. 6 and have to completely re-evaluate...

In terms of recordings, mine has remained the RCO/Chailly recording. I am still yet to start the Bertini cycle although it is there waiting in my collection....

I've not heard Bertini's yet, but Chailly's is my favorite, too: his interpretation makes a lot of sense (no doubt, too "sensible" for some), and the orchestral playing is just phenomenal.

--Bruce

[eyeresist]

Regarding the 5th, according to the liner notes for the Inoue CD, Mahler adjusted the orchestration each time he conducted the work, and in the last year of his life told a friend he wanted to reorchestrate the whole thing, saying something like "I can't believe I blundered like such a greenhorn!" Doubtless this gives permission for the completers to turn their attentions from the 10th to the 5th

I've been listening to recordings of the 7th. Tennstedt remains my favourite by far. Everyone else is too hard-bitten, trying to make it a Serious enterprise in a similar vein to 5 and 6. Only Tennstedt lets fantasy and whimsy rule....


What are people's views on the Sinopoli cycle? I've begun considering it as a result of looking for recordings of the orchestrated early songs, but the reviews of the symphonies are rarely really positive. The impression I get is that the interpretations are generally slow and slack, albeit nicely recorded.

[jlaurson]

What are people's views on the Sinopoli cycle? I've begun considering it as a result of looking for recordings of the orchestrated early songs, but the reviews of the symphonies are rarely really positive. The impression I get is that the interpretations are generally slow and slack, albeit nicely recorded.

The most complete cycle, one of the most individual ones, and one of the most underrated.
All in all, one of the cycles I highly recommend.

[Sergeant Rock]

What are people's views on the Sinopoli cycle? I've begun considering it as a result of looking for recordings of the orchestrated early songs, but the reviews of the symphonies are rarely really positive.

The most complete cycle, one of the most individual ones, and one of the most underrated.
All in all, one of the cycles I highly recommend.

Yeah, the reviews were rarely kind (as Jens said, underrated). But it's one of my favorite cycles too even though I'm no fan of his 2 and 5. He can be mannered (extreme tempos, especially on the slow side--which I love but you might not appreciate; odd but revealing instrumental balances). If you want those early songs it might be better, and far less expensive, to seek out a used copy of the Second. But if you're brave, and think you can stomach some quite individual ideas about Mahler, go for the cycle.

Sarge

[mahler10th]

If anyone wants Mahler 5 to talk to them, ie; music that seems to have a hidden narrative, it has got to be Inbal and the FRSO.  Inbal is one of my favourite conductors because he seems to do this in everything he does - his interpretations sound like the music is trying to speak to you, and what its saying is written all over the score.

[knight66]

I have never moved on from the Barbirolli 5th. In this instance it was an example of the first version I heard getting so into my blood stream that I have never truly moved on from it despite enjoying other versions. Exactly the same has happened with the 9th and Barbirolli, though I do think the live Karajan is marvellous.

Mike

[madaboutmahler]

I have never moved on from the Barbirolli 5th. In this instance it was an example of the first version I heard getting so into my blood stream that I have never truly moved on from it despite enjoying other versions. Exactly the same has happened with the 9th and Barbirolli, though I do think the live Karajan is marvellous.

Mike

I generally love the Barbirolli 5th as well... although, I find the last movement a little too slow for my liking....

I agree with you about the Karajan 9th.... yet to hear the Barbirolli though, although, I have it ready for listening in my collection!

[Sergeant Rock]

If anyone wants Mahler 5 to talk to them, ie; music that seems to have a hidden narrative, it has got to be Inbal and the FRSO.  Inbal is one of my favourite conductors because he seems to do this in everything he does - his interpretations sound like the music is trying to speak to you, and what its saying is written all over the score.

During your absence I recalled what you said about Inbal and the Fifth, and with, admittedly skeptical ears, I listened to it. Surprise! It's everything you say, one of the great M5s. It's been added to my list of favorites.

Sarge

[Leo K.]

If anyone wants Mahler 5 to talk to them, ie; music that seems to have a hidden narrative, it has got to be Inbal and the FRSO.  Inbal is one of my favourite conductors because he seems to do this in everything he does - his interpretations sound like the music is trying to speak to you, and what its saying is written all over the score.

I agree that is a special M5. It's been awhile since I listened to it, but I remember feeling a narrative (for the first time) in hearing this symphony. I also love his M8, one of my favorites!