Mahler Mania, Rebooted

Started by Greta, May 01, 2007, 08:06:38 PM

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Bonehelm

Quote from: techniquest on July 02, 2007, 10:47:25 PM
The Sir Simon Rattle performance at the 2002 Proms at the Royal Albert Hall, London on August 13th 2002 had around 800 performers.

Plenty of which were children/teens.

Florestan

A very interesting and detailed discussion of Mahler's Symphonies (the .pdf file below).
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

greg

Quote from: Florestan on July 04, 2007, 04:03:47 AM
A very interesting and detailed discussion of Mahler's Symphonies (the .pdf file below).
nice......

greg

Quote from: from the new world on July 02, 2007, 11:57:35 AM
The first movement does have a recapitulation, but it has to depend on what you define as the exposition. If the exposition includes the second climax, then there only seems half a recap, before the horn and flute solo section. However, if you shorten the exposition to the two main exposition themes leading to the first climax, then consider a modified (heavily) repeat (as in the opening of the seventh), then the recap fits in quite well.
yep, i guess it's just how you choose to define what ends where.

Bonehelm

Anyone find it unusual that the Titan symphony amazingly well made for the composer's first attempt at the genre? I particularly like the final movement, the "outbursts of despair" really got me.

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: Bonehelm on July 10, 2007, 11:02:01 PM
Anyone find it unusual that the Titan symphony amazingly well made for the composer's first attempt at the genre? I particularly like the final movement, the "outbursts of despair" really got me.

It is an amazing symphony but it wasn't his first attempt. As a student at the conservatory he wrote a symphony for a competition. There was a second symphony in A minor. Another symphony he worked on prior to his official First was called the Nordische Symphonie. In the library of Mahler's close friend and former mistress, the Baroness von Weber, Marion Mathilde, there were manuscripts of four early symphonies. There is anecdotal evidence that Mengelberg saw them and even played them on the piano some twenty years after Mahler's death. They were probably destroyed during the bombing of Dresden in 1944. Fire consumed most of the library.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

M forever

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on July 11, 2007, 03:53:50 AM
In the library of Mahler's close friend and former mistress, the Baroness von Weber, Marion Mathilde, there were manuscripts of four early symphonies. There is anecdotal evidence that Mengelberg saw them and even played them on the piano some twenty years after Mahler's death. They were probably destroyed during the bombing of Dresden in 1944. Fire consumed most of the library.

Wow, I didn't know that. But the bombing of Dresden was in 1945. I have been waiting days to get back at you for proving me wrong about the Bohemia thing. Finally, my chance came. So there!
;D


Quote from: Florestan on July 04, 2007, 04:03:47 AM
A very interesting and detailed discussion of Mahler's Symphonies (the .pdf file below).

I am devastated that that nonsense in the first paragraph was written by de la Grange, *of all people*.

karlhenning

Quote from: Bonehelm on July 10, 2007, 11:02:01 PM
Anyone find it unusual that the Titan symphony amazingly well made for the composer's first attempt at the genre?

Not remarkably unusual, partly because ten other composers wrote very well made symphonies for their first, partly because Gustav was almost 30 when he finished writing his First.

Bonehelm

Very informative comments, Sarge and karl:)

mahlertitan

It's remarkable indeed, but i think the composer with the most impressive "First" has to be Shostakovich.

MishaK

Quote from: MahlerTitan on July 12, 2007, 09:58:03 AM
It's remarkable indeed, but i think the composer with the most impressive "First" has to be Shostakovich.

I'd still vote for Brahms. Of course he took his bloody time with it and canned a lot of earlier attempts.

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: M forever on July 11, 2007, 07:02:02 AM
Wow, I didn't know that. But the bombing of Dresden was in 1945. I have been waiting days to get back at you for proving me wrong about the Bohemia thing. Finally, my chance came. So there!
;D

Son of a bitch...(to quote Cartman). I can't believe I wrote '44. Would you believe typo?...No? How about brain fart? No?... Damn. You got me then.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Papy Oli

I posted the question below in the "What are you listening to" thread earlier this week, but it got quickly swallowed up and didn't get a reply to. i'll have another go here  ;D

I was listening at the time to "Das Klagende Lied" on the Haitink/concertgebouw/Philips CD (with the Mahler 3). At 2'12 off the 4th "movement" (5th track off the 2nd CD - "Von Hohen Felsen..."), the sound of the brass section suddendly sounds totally muffled, like played from very far away, then after a while the singers are back in front, with the orchestra still muffled, then at 3'15 or so, the orchestra comes back to "normal" level...   ??? I noticed that happened also on Track 7 ("Ach Spielmann...")

Could someone who owns that CD shed some light on this please ? is it a recording default ? or an actual wanted effect ?

Thank you.

:)

Olivier

Mahlered

Das klagende Lied has parts specifically written for offstage wind band, to give the impression of distance, so the weird sounds on your recording are deliberate in principle. They're not supposed to be unclear, so that may be an issue with the recording, but the distant and muted aspect should be there.

Papy Oli

Quote from: Mahlered on July 22, 2007, 09:31:32 AM
Das klagende Lied has parts specifically written for offstage wind band, to give the impression of distance, so the weird sounds on your recording are deliberate in principle. They're not supposed to be unclear, so that may be an issue with the recording, but the distant and muted aspect should be there.

Hi Mahlered, Thanks for the clarification on this. "Muffled" was a wrong term used on my part, "Distant and muted" as you said is more accurate for what I hear.
Olivier


Bonehelm

I'm about to start with the 3rd symphony. I've listened to both the 1st and 2nd over 10 times each over the last few months, and I think I'm ready for the next one. Do you guys think I should keep going on with this order (1-10) or skip the 3rd and jump into an easier one first? Like the 4th or 5th, for example. All I know about the 3rd is that it has 6 movts and it's really long. I have access to Kubelik, Bertini and Bernstein.

Sergeant Rock

#277
Quote from: Bonehelm on September 28, 2007, 07:46:30 PM
I'm about to start with the 3rd symphony. I've listened to both the 1st and 2nd over 10 times each over the last few months, and I think I'm ready for the next one. Do you guys think I should keep going on with this order (1-10) or skip the 3rd and jump into an easier one first? Like the 4th or 5th, for example. All I know about the 3rd is that it has 6 movts and it's really long. I have access to Kubelik, Bertini and Bernstein.

When I was your age I didn't have the means to hear them chronologically. I couldn't afford recordings so I had to make do with the few LPs I found in the library, whatever happened to pop up on the radio or the occasional live concert. Before I was 22 I'd only managed to hear numbers 2 then 5, Das Lied, 6 and 4. I wish I could have approached them differently.

I think you should listen to the Third now...jump right in. Yeah, it's a monster, and was the most difficult of his symphonies for me to get into (it took years before I ventured beyond the first movement), but I still recommend it. Set aside 90 minutes, give a whirl, and then move on if it doesn't click right away.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Haffner

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on September 29, 2007, 06:44:13 AM


I think you should listen to the Third now...jump right in. Yeah, it's a monster, and was the most difficult of his symphonies for me to get into (it took years before I ventured beyond the first movement), but I still recommend it. Set aside 90 minutes, give a whirl, and then move on if it doesn't click right away.

Sarge




With the 3rd, I had massive trouble getting past the first half. But I was completely taken with the last half, and eventually I ended up going back to the first and loving it as a whold. It does take time and patience, as Sarge mentioned.

longears

Quote from: Bonehelm on September 28, 2007, 07:46:30 PM
Do you guys think I should keep going on with this order (1-10) or skip the 3rd and jump into an easier one first? Like the 4th or 5th, for example.

"...easier one?"  ???

I would keep going and listen to the third before moving on.  Or not.  But if I weren't familiar with any of them, I would hesitate to judge them before hearing, whether as "easier" or anything else.