Mahler Mania, Rebooted

Started by Greta, May 01, 2007, 08:06:38 PM

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DavidW

Quote from: Bonehelm on September 28, 2007, 07:46:30 PM
I'm about to start with the 3rd symphony. I've listened to both the 1st and 2nd over 10 times each over the last few months, and I think I'm ready for the next one. Do you guys think I should keep going on with this order (1-10) or skip the 3rd and jump into an easier one first? Like the 4th or 5th, for example. All I know about the 3rd is that it has 6 movts and it's really long. I have access to Kubelik, Bertini and Bernstein.

I take it by easier you mean shorter?  Try the fifth it's one of the shorter ones, but it also packs a hell of a punch (which I can't say about the first, not to say it's no good, it's just no fifth).

Renfield

Quote from: Bonehelm on September 28, 2007, 07:46:30 PM
I'm about to start with the 3rd symphony. I've listened to both the 1st and 2nd over 10 times each over the last few months, and I think I'm ready for the next one. Do you guys think I should keep going on with this order (1-10) or skip the 3rd and jump into an easier one first? Like the 4th or 5th, for example. All I know about the 3rd is that it has 6 movts and it's really long. I have access to Kubelik, Bertini and Bernstein.

10 times over the last few months? Heh, try ten times over the last few weeks for better effect, if you ask me! ;D

In a more serious tone, however, the 3rd is indeed a veritable monster of a symphony, and the second-to-last I got through to, in terms of semantics (i.e. what it's trying to tell me). Still, it's worth a first go, and perhaps a by-pass into the 4th and 5th, before going back to it, if you ask me. Just don't involve (all of) the 6th, or (any part of) the 7th, much less the 8th or 9th, yet. ;)

P.S.: Bernstein NYPO is the way to go for a first listen, the Bertini also being something of a (sonic) blast! And of course Pierre Boulez' grand achievement of a recording, if you can get it. 8)

Cato

Quote from: Renfield on October 02, 2007, 06:01:06 AM
And of course Pierre Boulez' grand achievement of a recording, if you can get it. 8)

Yes, listen to the Boulez recording! 

And I see no reason not to continue chronologically, if you have the time to hear the Third in one sitting!

Although people always talk about the Fifth as showing Mahler's move to a new direction, I think the Fourth is misidentified and lumped in with the "song symphonies" preceding it.

There is a struggling dissatisfaction in the Fourth, masked somewhat by its pastoral tone: the hectic use of the sleigh bells at certain moments, the sudden outbursts wanting to take over, insisting on dominance, but subsiding into calm: note the ending especially, which always leaves me dissatisfied and in something of a quandary: where is the rest of the symphony?!

So  I would have the Fourth stand alone as a bridge to the Fifth, Sixth, and Seventh.
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Bonehelm

Thanks for all your comments. Almost everyone quoted me and replied to my post, much appreciated. I'm going to start listening to the 3rd soon, probably with Bernstein. :)

Greta

I went in this order...

5th, 4th, 3rd, 7th (unplanned order wise, but heard it on the radio and was fascinated), then 2nd, 6th, then 1st, 8th, and 10th, 9th, but really I'm still assimilating both of those last ones. ;)

I kept coming back to others earlier on the list too (and still do, all the time of course, because I adore Mahler) and that helped me understand them better, as I kept hearing links between all the symphonies as I was listening.

The idea was originally to start in the middle work backwards and then forwards from 5, but I ended up equally branching outwards from it! There's really no right or wrong way. I liked skipping around though.

And nothing says you have to feel like you should "get" one before you move on to the next, no previous mastery is needed to pick up on what's going on and enjoy the others. If you're curious about one, go for it - I took that curiosity as a signal I was "ready" for the "challenge". :D So I encourage jumping around, it made it even more fun for me.

I remember very well the first time I heard the 3rd, I was like what in the world...because it goes through so many different characters and is a collage of different styles of music, in its span.

All the mvmts are great, and the last one can be really sublime, but I will confess I often get stuck on the 1st, and know it better than the other mvmts. Definitely look up information about the work, which was huge help as it is quite programmatic. I think Mahler depicted the struggle between light (Spring) and dark (Winter) in the 1st mvmt brilliantly, it's fascinating, very vivid.

As far as recordings, there are tons of good ones, but my favorites are Abbado/Vienna, Boulez/Vienna, Salonen/Los Angeles, all superlative IMO. The last one is my favorite recording from that team, the detail, structure, playing, and recording, excellent in every way.

Vienna Phil, they sound incredible in both of those recordings. Boulez brings his usual uncanny examination, but Abbado is my #1 for being lyrical and powerful (the horns in his opening are fearsome!), atmospheric, and profound. The last mvmt is heartbreaking, I think he plays up links between it and the 5th's Adagietto, gorgeous stuff.

Bonehelm

Quote from: Greta on October 06, 2007, 09:38:04 AM
I went in this order...

5th, 4th, 3rd, 7th (unplanned order wise, but heard it on the radio and was fascinated), then 2nd, 6th, then 1st, 8th, and 10th, 9th, but really I'm still assimilating both of those last ones. ;)

I kept coming back to others earlier on the list too (and still do, all the time of course, because I adore Mahler) and that helped me understand them better, as I kept hearing links between all the symphonies as I was listening.

The idea was originally to start in the middle work backwards and then forwards from 5, but I ended up equally branching outwards from it! There's really no right or wrong way. I liked skipping around though.

And nothing says you have to feel like you should "get" one before you move on to the next, no previous mastery is needed to pick up on what's going on and enjoy the others. If you're curious about one, go for it - I took that curiosity as a signal I was "ready" for the "challenge". :D So I encourage jumping around, it made it even more fun for me.

I remember very well the first time I heard the 3rd, I was like what in the world...because it goes through so many different characters and is a collage of different styles of music, in its span.

All the mvmts are great, and the last one can be really sublime, but I will confess I often get stuck on the 1st, and know it better than the other mvmts. Definitely look up information about the work, which was huge help as it is quite programmatic. I think Mahler depicted the struggle between light (Spring) and dark (Winter) in the 1st mvmt brilliantly, it's fascinating, very vivid.

As far as recordings, there are tons of good ones, but my favorites are Abbado/Vienna, Boulez/Vienna, Salonen/Los Angeles, all superlative IMO. The last one is my favorite recording from that team, the detail, structure, playing, and recording, excellent in every way.

Vienna Phil, they sound incredible in both of those recordings. Boulez brings his usual uncanny examination, but Abbado is my #1 for being lyrical and powerful (the horns in his opening are fearsome!), atmospheric, and profound. The last mvmt is heartbreaking, I think he plays up links between it and the 5th's Adagietto, gorgeous stuff.

Good to hear your experiences, Greta! I'm looking forward to hear the 3rd. I went back to the 2nd on Abbado/LFO this afternoon. The whole symphony was well played and recorded throughout, except for the final passage after the final chorus...is it just me or is it supposed to be played that fast? Because from my previous experiences, most conductors slow down and expand the last chords to create the "grand", "heavenly" feeling. I like how he lets the last chord rings in reverberation after the whole symphony though, other conductors usually treat that note as a staccato (like Bernstein on Sony classics), and it really doesn't make sense because the music preceding that final note is made up of really long chords. So I liked how it ended like a Bruckner symphony, with the sounds of the brass/organ/thick strings just hanging in the auditorium. Superb ending.  :)

Renfield

Quote from: Bonehelm on October 06, 2007, 03:19:39 PM
So I liked how it ended like a Bruckner symphony, with the sounds of the brass/organ/thick strings just hanging in the auditorium. Superb ending.  :)

Bruno Walter was of the opinion that the one symphony to best show the results of Mahler's apprenticeship to Anton Bruckner was the 2nd, as I heard him comment in a radio interview.

So you're probably on to something, there. ;)

bhodges

Anyone who love the Mahler Ninth may want to put down January 7, 2008 on the calendar.  Last night's performance of it with Simon Rattle and Berlin (at Carnegie) was taped by PBS for broadcast on Great Performances on that date. 

It was a fascinating, harrowing reading, and Rattle made the piece sound very modern, almost atonal.  The program also included the U.S. premiere of Magnus Lindberg's Seht die Sonne (2007), which was agreeable enough, if maybe not one of his best, but the orchestra played it about as well as could be imagined.

Apparently during the intermission feature, they will show excerpts from the Dudamel/Rattle concert on Monday night with the Simón Bolívar Youth Orchestra of Venezuela. 

--Bruce

MishaK

Quote from: bhodges on November 14, 2007, 10:15:44 AM
Anyone who love the Mahler Ninth may want to put down January 7, 2008 on the calendar.  Last night's performance of it with Simon Rattle and Berlin (at Carnegie) was taped by PBS for broadcast on Great Performances on that date. 

It was a fascinating, harrowing reading, and Rattle made the piece sound very modern, almost atonal.  The program also included the U.S. premiere of Magnus Lindberg's Seht die Sonne (2007), which was agreeable enough, if maybe not one of his best, but the orchestra played it about as well as could be imagined.

Apparently during the intermission feature, they will show excerpts from the Dudamel/Rattle concert on Monday night with the Simón Bolívar Youth Orchestra of Venezuela. 

--Bruce

Also of note: tonight's BPO/Rattle performance of Das Lied von der Erde and Tevot by Adès will be broadcast and webcast live by WNYC: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16227797

bhodges

Quote from: O Mensch on November 14, 2007, 11:12:04 AM
Also of note: tonight's BPO/Rattle performance of Das Lied von der Erde and Tevot by Adès will be broadcast and webcast live by WNYC: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16227797

Yes, yes, yes.  If I'm not in the hall (will know later) I'll be glued to the radio. 

--Bruce

uffeviking

I was glued to my web cast set-up, but got in much too late, only the last portions of Das Lied. I am confused! Who sang? The announcer talked about Heppner sitting there with his hands in his lap listening, but I could not understand who he was listening to. Whoever it was, he better do something about finding those high notes right off, and not keep searching for them all over the place. Horrible!

Rattle and his conducting? All I can say, if I read one more derogatory remark about Celibidache and his slow tempi, I might get a bit testy. I have eight different versions of Das Lied von der Erde but this one must be half an hour longer any of them!  ::)

bhodges

Heppner, alas, was not in his best form last night.  (This was confirmed by a friend who was actually in the hall.)  Quasthoff, on the other hand, was really good, and I thought Rattle and the orchestra did a very nice job with the score.  I can enjoy the piece with a variety of interpretations, even a slower one like this. 

I'm very curious to hear what Rattle will do with the Tenth, tomorrow night.  I suspect it's a piece that he really likes, and that he will bring some of the shocking qualities that he brought to the Ninth on Tuesday. 

--Bruce

Papy Oli

Showing as a new release in February 4th on Amazon UK... not many details, and a steep price ..£36.99

Olivier

Que

#293
Quote from: papy on January 04, 2008, 11:49:43 PM
Showing as a new release in February 4th on Amazon UK... not many details, and a steep price ..£36.99



Details are to be found HERE:

"Tah 642-644 - Previously unissued Mahler archives

CD I: Symphony No. 1 (Staatskapelle Dresden, J. Keilberth conducting) 4.II.1950
CD II: Symphony No. 2 (NWDR Sinfonieorchester, Hans Schmidt-Isserstedt conducting, soloists: Oda Balsborg and Sieglinde Wagner) 12.XI.1956
CD III: Symphony No. 4 (Städtisches Opernhaus- und Museumsorchester, Bruno Walter conducting, soloist: Annelies Kupper) 4.IX.1950

One of the essential traits in Mahler’s creation is the fact that his works consist only of Lieder and symphonies. This apparently fortuitous fact is of capital importance: in fact it is the vivifying source of the Lied that nourished in him the symphonic flow and conditioned its evolution, at least in the first four symphonies.
The present three recordings come from German archives (Keilberth in Dresden, Schmidt-Isserstedt in Hamburg and Walter in Frankfurt).
"

BTW another Mahler IV with Walter - and a superb one - is to be found on this Tahra issue (TAH 524), rec. from 1953 with the NYPO and Irmgard Seefried.


           click for link

Q

Bogey

And there is also the Mahler Fest that is on its 21st year here in Colorado (Jan 9-13).  See details at the link below for what is being performed:

http://www.mahlerfest.org/
There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

Symphonien

#295
Yes! My Dover scores of Mahler's 5th and 6th arrived today from Amazon! Awesome!!! ;D I'm sure I'll have a great time studying these. Now I need to get the rest of them too when I can afford it. >:D Just quickly flipping through, I noticed it still contains the third hammerblow in the Sixth, but it is placed not where I thought it would be, but instead after that section with the violin melody and harp glissando which leads to a minor chord. Interesting, I never knew that before. Can anyone recommend a good recording of the 6th which has this 3rd hammer blow from the original version?

Well, guess it's time to pull out Barshai's 5th and follow along with the score for the first time! 8)

By the way, just noticed that Boulez's Mahler 8th will be released tomorrow. Are there any plans for a boxed set to be released in the near future? I've heard good things about Boulez's Mahler but am hesitant to buy any individual releases in case they release the whole thing in a convenient set.

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: Que on January 05, 2008, 02:04:39 AM
One of the essential traits in Mahler’s creation is the fact that his works consist only of Lieder and symphonies. This apparently fortuitous fact is of capital importance: in fact it is the vivifying source of the Lied that nourished in him the symphonic flow and conditioned its evolution, at least in the first four symphonies.

Which is why I suggested to a Mahler neophyte in another thread that he start with the songs. They are often overlooked here but they are of vital importance to understanding Mahler.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

PerfectWagnerite

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on January 07, 2008, 07:51:26 AM
Which is why I suggested to a Mahler neophyte in another thread that he start with the songs. They are often overlooked here but they are of vital importance to understanding Mahler.

Sarge
I think I understand Mahler, at least a little bit...but I almost never listen to his songs, other than Das Lied that is.

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on January 07, 2008, 07:51:26 AM
Which is why I suggested to a Mahler neophyte in another thread that he start with the songs. They are often overlooked here but they are of vital importance to understanding Mahler.

I agree. Every period in Mahler's compositional career has its harvest of symphonies and songs with all kinds of fascinating inter-connections. So the 'Des Knaben Wunderhorn' songs and the 'Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen' are the complement to the first four symphonies, as the 'Rückert-lieder' and the 'Totenkinderlieder' are to symphonies 5 to 7. 'Das Lied von der Erde' is the perfect culmination: a song-symphony, which is related to the Ninth.
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Gustav

I'm glad that "Mahler Mania" is back, now has anyone heard of this recording?

http://www.farao-classics.de/english/catalogue/mahler3-e.html