Robert Simpson(1921-1997)

[Madiel]

Oh man, the 5th Sarabande?

I'll definitely want to hear this.

[calyptorhynchus]

And now my next (but last) transcription of an unrecorded Simpson work: The trio for Clarinet, Cello and Piano of 1967.

This is available at:

https://youtu.be/WUx4Y4Aafhk

Some notes:

This work was written in 1967, the year before the well-known Quintet for Clarinet and Strings. It is completely different from that work, although like the later work it has enormous energy and passages of serious beauty.

When I was transcribing it I listened to it section by section as I completed each section and I interpreted it as a work of extreme musical energy like the Symphony No.5. However on listening to it all the way through I revised my opinion, because I had missed the fun and good humour of the piece. In my interpretation now the work is a sort of written-down improvisation between the piano on the one hand and the clarinet in A and cello on the other. I say this because the clarinet and cello usually play together in unison or close imitation (the cello often playing high in its register) whereas the piano part is more different in its material. I imagined Simpson imagining a clarinettist and a cellist who are very good friends and understand each other very well meeting up for the first time with a pianist who is a little more jazzy and outgoing than they are and the Trio is the result of their first improvisations together.

The piece begins with a slow, mysterious introduction in Eflat minor, where it sounds as though the players are testing their tuning. Suddenly an Allegro non troppo section begins led by the piano. The first stretch of fast music is a little bit tentative and is full of figurations that are played with and then quickly dropped. The music isn't particularly dissonant, but it is modulating constantly (Simpson, as usual, uses no key signatures, and every bar is full of accidentals, throughout the piece).

Quite soon the music drops away in volume and tempo and a slower section ♩= 72 begins. This is seriously beautiful, but doesn't last long, almost as though the musicians have suddenly discovered the profundity of their music-making and are a little embarrassed about it. It fades away, there is a pause, and then an Allegro molto e furioso section begins. This is faster than the first fast section and two-in-a-bar, not triple time. Its energy is incredible (in some bars every note has an accent and sfs and sffs abound). But I don't hear any anger (despite the furioso) or angst, perhaps occasionally the clarinet sounds a little irritated with the piano, and the cello sounds as if it is straining to keep up, high on the fingerboard.

The music again is full of figurations and patterns that are tried out and then dropped, and picked up again at a later stage in different combinations. There are quieter passages, but the music carries on and on (this last section is in fact the same length as the first fast section but has more notes and sounds more substantial) until quite suddenly the players seem to realise that it's time to stop. The music just seems to end mid-flow, with a quick concluding few bars where the clarinet plays a sustained f# fading to niente, seemingly the note where proceedings had got up to, but the pianist (remembering they began in Eflat minor) realises that the clarinet note can be reinterpreted as a gflat and so plays a quiet chord of Eflat minor to round the session off.

00.00 Largo Molto
00.54 Allegro non troppo
08.55 ♩= 72
14.08 Allegro molto e furioso (tt 22.00)

Enjoy

[foxandpeng]

Robert Simpson
Symphony 4
Russell Keable
Kensington Symphony Orchestra
Dunelm Records

Symphony 2
from a YouTube rip to mp3

Positive few listens to some of Simpson's symphonies yesterday and today. It puts me in a bit of a quandary, because I normally listen to streamed music via Spotify but there isn't a complete cycle available. As you probably know, Hyperion have the only complete set with Vernon Handley and they can only be purchased.

I'm aware that Simpson wasn't a fan of these performances, due in part to lack of rehearsal time, but I wondered about the opinions of other GMG members. Before I make an uncharacteristic purchase of the downloads, it would be good to hear how others feel. I know Simpson doesn't get masses of love here, but for those who do appreciate him,  your opinions might help!

[vandermolen]

Robert Simpson
Symphony 4
Russell Keable
Kensington Symphony Orchestra
Dunelm Records

Symphony 2
from a YouTube rip to mp3

Positive few listens to some of Simpson's symphonies yesterday and today. It puts me in a bit of a quandary, because I normally listen to streamed music via Spotify but there isn't a complete cycle available. As you probably know, Hyperion have the only complete set with Vernon Handley and they can only be purchased.

I'm aware that Simpson wasn't a fan of these performances, due in part to lack of rehearsal time, but I wondered about the opinions of other GMG members. Before I make an uncharacteristic purchase of the downloads, it would be good to hear how others feel. I know Simpson doesn't get masses of love here, but for those who do appreciate him,  your opinions might help!

I especially like Boult's performance of Symphony No.1 and Horenstein's recording of Symphony No.3. I have a few CDs from the Hyperion set but I prefer those earlier recordings. Others may well disagree.

[foxandpeng]

I especially like Boult's performance of Symphony No.1 and Horenstein's recording of Symphony No.3. I have a few CDs from the Hyperion set but I prefer those earlier recordings. Others may well disagree.

Thank you, Jeffrey. Aside from #5 and #6, I can stream the Horenstein in #3, which I am pleased about. I also have access to a variety of downloads drawn some years ago from the Art Music Forum making up 7 of the 11 (I think the Boult is amongst those). I know I have access to more music than I will ever be able to digest, but I am a completist and want to hear all of them. 

Simpson's lack of prominence is a shame. It is bad that I don't know him better than I do! The SQs included...

[calyptorhynchus]

Robert Simpson
Symphony 4
Russell Keable
Kensington Symphony Orchestra
Dunelm Records

Symphony 2
from a YouTube rip to mp3

Positive few listens to some of Simpson's symphonies yesterday and today. It puts me in a bit of a quandary, because I normally listen to streamed music via Spotify but there isn't a complete cycle available. As you probably know, Hyperion have the only complete set with Vernon Handley and they can only be purchased.

I'm aware that Simpson wasn't a fan of these performances, due in part to lack of rehearsal time, but I wondered about the opinions of other GMG members. Before I make an uncharacteristic purchase of the downloads, it would be good to hear how others feel. I know Simpson doesn't get masses of love here, but for those who do appreciate him,  your opinions might help!

Well I guess that that Youtube Symphony No.2 is the Vernon Handley anyway. Last year Radio 3 did the Symphony No.2 (Brabbins with the Scottish National Orchestra I think). As a disc hasn't been released yet I can let you have a recording I made if you message me.

As to the Kensington Symphony Orchestra, I don't think it's as good as Handley but it's good to have just for an alternative view of different passages. The recording I really like of No.4 is the original BBC premiere which has the Adagio version of the slow movement (Simpson later changed the tempo marking to Andante because he was afraid of the movement turning into a romantic wallow; in fact the slow movement in the premiere wasn't a wallow). Unfortunately the recording of this at Albion's archive (Art Music Forum) has noise limiting in it (you remember how if you set noise limiting and there was a crescendo the noise level is suppressed, very annoying... there are lots of crescendi in No.4). I hope Itter recorded it and Lyrita release it eventually.

[foxandpeng]

Well I guess that that Youtube Symphony No.2 is the Vernon Handley anyway. Last year Radio 3 did the Symphony No.2 (Brabbins with the Scottish National Orchestra I think). As a disc hasn't been released yet I can let you have a recording I made if you message me.

As to the Kensington Symphony Orchestra, I don't think it's as good as Handley but it's good to have just for an alternative view of different passages. The recording I really like of No.4 is the original BBC premiere which has the Adagio version of the slow movement (Simpson later changed the tempo marking to Andante because he was afraid of the movement turning into a romantic wallow; in fact the slow movement in the premiere wasn't a wallow). Unfortunately the recording of this at Albion's archive (Art Music Forum) has noise limiting in it (you remember how if you set noise limiting and there was a crescendo the noise level is suppressed, very annoying... there are lots of crescendi in No.4). I hope Itter recorded it and Lyrita release it eventually.

Thank you - not just for the helpful information but for the kind offer. PM incoming.

[Madiel]

I'm aware that Simpson wasn't a fan of these performances, due in part to lack of rehearsal time, but I wondered about the opinions of other GMG members. Before I make an uncharacteristic purchase of the downloads, it would be good to hear how others feel. I know Simpson doesn't get masses of love here, but for those who do appreciate him,  your opinions might help!

I haven't heard any other performances other than the Hyperion ones. But I'm aware of other people similarly suggesting that other, harder-to-find performances are better.

I cannot vouch in any meaningful way for the validity of these opinions, I just know that they exist!

[Mountain Goat]

The Hyperion recordings sound great to me, but I haven't heard any other performances to compare them with. In any case they are the only option if you want to hear all the symphonies. I have the CD box set but sadly this appears to be out of print now and only available as a download.

[foxandpeng]

Thank you Madiel and Mountain Goat 

Have heard the Boult #1 and the Brabbins #2 so far today, so am still torn as to what to do about purchasing the Vernon Handley set. If I include YouTube recordings, I now have access to serviceable performances of all but #10. Ah, we shall see, I suppose. The next obsessive wishlist item will be the Simpson SQs, which really are only available via d/l purchase.

#2 has been particularly enjoyable (with real gratitude to calyptorynchus) with its sparse repetitions and developing arc of variations in the central movement, leading into the energy of the finale. I'll never have the technical capacity to appreciate the Beethoven allusions, but I still like it!

[relm1]

Don't know if this matters but I was told by Malcolm MacDonald that Simpson hated the Handley set.  Thought they were dull and lifeless.  I like them but do prefer Boult and (memory lapse was it Horenstein?) though to your point then it's an incomplete set.

[Maestro267]

If that's the case then Simpson was completely and utterly wrong. Those recordings have got more life to them than anything. A fine continuation of Handley's excellent Hyperion records.

[Spotted Horses]

Don't know if this matters but I was told by Malcolm MacDonald that Simpson hated the Handley set.  Thought they were dull and lifeless...

Maybe it's the symphonies that are dull and lifeless.

Spoken as one who has tried to dig into them, but has come out with more respect than love.

[Mountain Goat]

Have heard the Boult #1 and the Brabbins #2 so far today, so am still torn as to what to do about purchasing the Vernon Handley set. If I include YouTube recordings, I now have access to serviceable performances of all but #10. Ah, we shall see, I suppose. The next obsessive wishlist item will be the Simpson SQs, which really are only available via d/l purchase.

If it's only No. 10 you need now, there are used copies on Amazon Marketplace - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Simpson-Symphony-No-10-Robert/dp/B000002ZPV/ - if like me you object to paying for something which has no physical presence. I've managed to collect most of the string quartet CDs over the last few years as used copies have popped up on Amazon Marketplace, now missing only Nos. 10 & 11. Hyperion also offer an "archive service" for out of print recordings, where they produce a CDR on demand, though I've never used it and can't vouch for the quality of the product.

[foxandpeng]

Maybe it's the symphonies that are dull and lifeless.

Spoken as one who has tried to dig into them, but has come out with more respect than love.

*arrrgh* .. runs away, holding up religious relic in your general direction  ... I'm sold on Simpson, tbh, so the music is generally a winner for me.

If it's only No. 10 you need now, there are used copies on Amazon Marketplace - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Simpson-Symphony-No-10-Robert/dp/B000002ZPV/ - if like me you object to paying for something which has no physical presence. I've managed to collect most of the string quartet CDs over the last few years as used copies have popped up on Amazon Marketplace, now missing only Nos. 10 & 11. Hyperion also offer an "archive service" for out of print recordings, where they produce a CDR on demand, though I've never used it and can't vouch for the quality of the product.

Cheers, MG. I have long done away with my CD player, sadly. Digital only for a good couple of years now. I may have little choice but to buy the d/l if I want to get hold of #10, and for the difference in cost, it's almost worth grabbing the lot.

[Spotted Horses]

*arrrgh* .. runs away, holding up religious relic in your general direction  ... I'm sold on Simpson, tbh, so the music is generally a winner for me.

Full disclosure, I did like the 10th, I got the hyperion release when it first came out. Then I detoured into the string quartets and that is when I lost enthusiasm for Simpson. Maybe I need to get back to the symphonies (I have the CD set).

[Spotted Horses]

If it's only No. 10 you need now, there are used copies on Amazon Marketplace - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Simpson-Symphony-No-10-Robert/dp/B000002ZPV/ - if like me you object to paying for something which has no physical presence...

This I don't follow. When you buy a recording of a symphony it is not the audio that you value, but the plastic box with a plastic disc inside? Magnetic domains on your hard disk are less real than pits in an aluminum film? The FLAC files hyperion sells are bit-for-bit identical to the CD.

[foxandpeng]

Full disclosure, I did like the 10th, I got the hyperion release when it first came out. Then I detoured into the string quartets and that is when I lost enthusiasm for Simpsons. Maybe I need to get back to the symphonies (I have the CD set).

I don't know the SQs, but I hear both that they are fairly challenging and also that they can be compared in some ways to the Holmboe. I can't speak to that, but if true, it would be a positive. I'm enjoying the challenge of the Peter Maxwell Davies' Naxos Quartets, so how much harder can they be?

[Spotted Horses]

I'm enjoying the challenge of the Peter Maxwell Davies' Naxos Quartets, so how much harder can they be?

The concept of something that is difficult to enjoy seems bizarre.

Anyway, I generally like gnarly works. I should like Simpson, so I should give it another try. I currently find myself drawn to French things, so it may take time for me to dislodge myself from that orbit (Lalo, Roussel, Debussy...). And now I am seeing posts about Ives, so I might be tempted to make my usual once-a-decade attempt to figure out why anyone likes Ives.

[foxandpeng]

The concept of something that is difficult to enjoy seems bizarre.

Anyway, I generally like gnarly works. I should like Simpson, so I should give it another try. I currently find myself drawn to French things, so it may take time for me to dislodge myself from that orbit (Lalo, Roussel, Debussy...). And now I am seeing posts about Ives, so I might be tempted to make my usual once-a-decade attempt to figure out why anyone likes Ives.

I think that's part of it. I like gnarly, thorny, or less obvious music alongside the more accessible works. Not just musically, either... Laphroaig or other heavily peated whisky, stronger tasting foods, people with 'personality'... but musically, I find that lots of the works I love most have taken a bit more effort to grasp. Outside of classical music, my preferred choices tend to be the thornier genres of metal 

I'm yet to discover Ives, so will look out for your posts!