Robert Simpson(1921-1997)

Started by Dundonnell, March 25, 2008, 02:09:14 PM

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Baron Scarpia

Quote from: arpeggio on March 28, 2018, 03:17:43 PM
Just because I have not submitted any posts does not mean that I am not a member of the Simpson fan club.

I'm also a Simpson admirer (though not a rabid one).

Baron Scarpia

Quote from: J.Z. Herrenberg on March 28, 2018, 08:05:45 AM
Robert Simpson is one of those intelligent and masterly artists whose world-view limits their range of expression. I respect and admire him, and I appreciate several of his symphonies, like 3 and 9. But I hardly ever feel the urge to listen again. There is a hard objectivity to his music and a one-sided interest in process and structure, but not in aid of expression. And that, to me, is a weakness. Havergal Brian may be his inferior in overall symphonic planning, but his work is all expression and dramatic contrast, all structural surprise.

This seems to imply that having an interest in form and being expressive are somehow at odds. I don't think that is necessarily the case.

cilgwyn

I've got to say that,after my recent listen to the old Horenstein recording,I really wouldn't mind hearing his third,again. I do like those 'space-y' sounds. And I quite like the way the Fifth seems to die away,after all that explosion of orchestral power. Maybe,I do,still quite like,at least,some,of his music?!! :-\ ;D They make a good pairing on that Hyperion cd.

cilgwyn

Last night I finally admitted to myself that I did have a niggling desire to hear Simpson's third again!! ::) ;D The fact that Dundonnell regards the symphonies of Robert Simpson so highly (he started the thread) was another factor. I've also got to admit,that,regardless of the music,I really do like some of the photos on the front of the Hyperion releases!! ::) ;D Of course,as an avid collector,I couldn't possibly buy a copy of the third,without have another shot at the Ninth;and even try one,or two, of the symphonies,which I haven't heard,and which Simpson admirers,rate amongs the best. Despite,attempts to resist;No's 3 & 5,2 & 4 and 9,will soon be wending their way here!! ::) ;D And some cool cd artwork!! 8)

vandermolen

#264
Quote from: cilgwyn on March 30, 2018, 02:43:44 AM
Last night I finally admitted to myself that I did have a niggling desire to hear Simpson's third again!! ::) ;D The fact that Dundonnell regards the symphonies of Robert Simpson so highly (he started the thread) was another factor. I've also got to admit,that,regardless of the music,I really do like some of the photos on the front of the Hyperion releases!! ::) ;D Of course,as an avid collector,I couldn't possibly buy a copy of the third,without have another shot at the Ninth;and even try one,or two, of the symphonies,which I haven't heard,and which Simpson admirers,rate amongs the best. Despite,attempts to resist;No's 3 & 5,2 & 4 and 9,will soon be wending their way here!! ::) ;D And some cool cd artwork!! 8)

The massive sun/landscape on the front of the original Unicorn Souvenir series release of Horenstein's recording of the Third Symphony (not Simpson with his pipe, as on the reissue) is my favourite Simpson CD cover image although the Hyperion No.9 is a great image as well which I prefer to the other 'Sky at Night' type images.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: vandermolen on March 30, 2018, 05:36:44 AM
The massive sun/landscape on the front of the original Unicorn Souvenir series release of Horenstein's recording of the Third Symphony (not Simpson with his pipe, as on the reissue) is my favourite Simpson CD cover image




Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

cilgwyn

Yes,that one is my favourite,too! I wish they could have kept it for the reissue! And yes,I'd pick the cover of the Ninth as my favourite. But I do like some of the others. Particularly,2 & 4,followed by 3 & 5. I also like 6 & 7,for some reason!! I've often been tempted to buy them on this basis;but have put off by mixed opinions on forums,and my own initial experience of these symphonies. I did like No 3,though. I used to play the Lp version,quite often,when I was young. The sleeve was a definite plus!! Now,after putting up some,rather,negative observations I've been thinking about what I listened to and I've decided to have another go at some of them. It's funny! I actually remember getting excited enough about the Ninth,at the time,to get my late mother to sit listening to it,with me! The symphony is followed,I seem to remember,with Simpson,which she seemed to enjoy.

Thanks,Sarge. Strangely,enough......this is the one I had,and remember propping up in front of me,and gazing at,while I listened to the Lp!


cilgwyn

It's probably one of the reasons I enjoyed the symphony so much. I was really into astronomy and space travel,then. I remember,I collected all the PG tips 'Race into Space' cards & pasted them all,meticulously,into the special book.

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: cilgwyn on March 30, 2018, 06:25:04 AM
It's probably one of the reasons I enjoyed the symphony so much. I was really into astronomy and space travel,then.

That is a cool cover.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Baron Scarpia

I have the Simpson symphony cycle from Hyperion. Never listened to any of it. Where should a person start? Probably would respond well to something with a bit of wit.

Archaic Torso of Apollo

Quote from: cilgwyn on March 28, 2018, 05:40:45 AM
I listened to Simpson's third,a few weeks ago,and I DID enjoy it! The recording was the one on the old Unicorn Lp. (I got it off Youtube and put it on a cd-r.) I remember liking it,when I was a youngster.

For whatever reason, I never really got into 3 & 5 - they struck me as impressive, but somehow hard to like.

The symphonies I still like, after knowing them for years, are 2, 4, 9 and (with some reservations) 8.

QuoteIt was terrible,the stroke he had! I believe it affected him in such a way that pain killing drugs had no effect!!

I think this is what he suffered from:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dejerine–Roussy_syndrome

It essentially ended his composing career - it is hard to concentrate on writing music when you are afflicted with a more or less permanent headache.

Quote from: Baron Scarpia on March 30, 2018, 07:05:37 PM
I have the Simpson symphony cycle from Hyperion. Never listened to any of it. Where should a person start? Probably would respond well to something with a bit of wit.

Symphonies 2 or 4. Or the Nielsen Variations, assuming they're part of that box.
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

vandermolen

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on March 30, 2018, 06:11:29 AM



Sarge

Thank you Sarge! Yes, that's the one.

Prompted by this discussion I listened to Simpson's Third Symphony yesterday (NMC reissue of Horenstein's recording - Simpson with pipe as cover image).

If anything I enjoyed it more than before - a powerful and memorable work. I'd forgotten that it was dedicated to Havergal Brian and parts of the second movement reminded me of HBs music and I wondered if this was a deliberate tribute from Simpson. I enjoyed the first movement very much. My attention flagged a bit in the opening sections of the second movement but I became increasingly gripped as the movement progresses and was very pleased to hear this work again. I agree with cilgwyn about the Hyperion cover of 3 and 5 which is my favourite of the outer space series. I also had a keen interest in astronomy and space exploration and still,occasionally look at the Moon or rings of Saturn through my telescope. I also made a rather large airfix model of the Saturn V rocket in my youth. I still find the photo of the Earth from their orbit of the Moon taken by the Apollo 8 crew (Borman, Lovell, Anders - I still remember!) around Christmas 1968 to be more meaningful that the Moon landing itself in some ways. Anyway, back to Simpson. I think that symphonies 2 and 4 need to be my next port of call from the postings on this thread. No.1 is my other favourite and I love that old EMI CD with Boult's recording of the work coupled with Robin Orr's highly memorably and concise Symphony and Fricker's Second Symphony (the best of his symphonies I think).
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

vandermolen

Quote from: Baron Scarpia on March 30, 2018, 07:05:37 PM
I have the Simpson symphony cycle from Hyperion. Never listened to any of it. Where should a person start? Probably would respond well to something with a bit of wit.

From my experience Nos 1 and 3 although 2 and 9 are highly rated by many here.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

DaveF

Quote from: vandermolen on March 31, 2018, 12:12:28 AM
I also made a rather large airfix model of the Saturn V rocket in my youth.

So did I!  (And probably so did most other boys our age).  But the good news is that you can relive your childhood for the same sort of price as, say, a box of the Bernstein edition:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Airfix-Apollo-Saturn-V-144-scale-1973-2nd-box-complete/183154389926?hash=item2aa4da33a6:g:zYAAAOSwUZNavmMf
"All the world is birthday cake" - George Harrison

vandermolen

Quote from: DaveF on March 31, 2018, 12:23:34 AM
So did I!  (And probably so did most other boys our age).  But the good news is that you can relive your childhood for the same sort of price as, say, a box of the Bernstein edition:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Airfix-Apollo-Saturn-V-144-scale-1973-2nd-box-complete/183154389926?hash=item2aa4da33a6:g:zYAAAOSwUZNavmMf

How extraordinary and what a nostalgia trip! Thank you.
Yes, that's the one. I seem to recall that I made it and my auntie who's was a jewellery designer painted the markings on it for me.
:)
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

calyptorhynchus

Quote from: vandermolen on March 31, 2018, 12:16:39 AM
From my experience Nos 1 and 3 although 2 and 9 are highly rated by many here.
Don't forget 10, imagine the Hammerklavier Sonata (played by someone who Really Can Play, because many can't) as a Symphony!

I'm not sure whether the astronomy theme was a good idea for the Simpson Hyperion CD covers. If they'd been issued with the standard countryside shots that we get with other British composers I'm sure we'd hear less about Simpson's impersonality.
'Many men are melancholy by hearing music, but it is a pleasing melancholy that it causeth.' Robert Burton

vandermolen

Quote from: calyptorhynchus on March 31, 2018, 01:20:25 AM
Don't forget 10, imagine the Hammerklavier Sonata (played by someone who Really Can Play, because many can't) as a Symphony!

I'm not sure whether the astronomy theme was a good idea for the Simpson Hyperion CD covers. If they'd been issued with the standard countryside shots that we get with other British composers I'm sure we'd hear less about Simpson's impersonality.

An interesting point and also about the relationship between cover images and our perception of the music. My first and most influential contact with the VW symphonies was with a Decca LP of Symphony 6 featuring an image of the craggy Blae Tarn landscape in the Lake District in the North of England. Thereafter I always came to associate the music with this kind of rugged rural scene rather than with post-atomic warfare destruction as was the view of many commentators.

Wasn't Simpson a keen astronomer as well?
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

cilgwyn

Quote from: calyptorhynchus on March 31, 2018, 01:20:25 AM
Don't forget 10, imagine the Hammerklavier Sonata (played by someone who Really Can Play, because many can't) as a Symphony!

I'm not sure whether the astronomy theme was a good idea for the Simpson Hyperion CD covers. If they'd been issued with the standard countryside shots that we get with other British composers I'm sure we'd hear less about Simpson's impersonality.
I wouldn't have wanted to buy them so much,though! Let alone,this:



A good point though,calyptorhyncus. I had some idea Simpson was interested in astronomy,too?! I can understand why vandermolen was enthused by the cover art on his Lp. It's a great cover image. Very striking. Presumably my Lp was a later reissue? I wonder why Unicorn changed the imagery?Obvious answer. It might sell more copies to mugs like me! ::) ;D It reminds me of some of the fun,and in a garish way,quite wonderful,artwork you used to have on some of those science fiction paperbacks. (Is it me,or is book artwork not as good as it used to be?!)
I remember being less grabbed,and even slightly bored,by the second movement,too. But after a while it did seem to grown on me. For some strange (extremely strange,probably?! ???) reason it somehow reminds me of the 'Moonchild' track on In the court of the Crimson King. I loved the opening tracks,and,as a lover of classical music, the 'orchestral' feel to the third track,with Greg Lake's (Rip,to him,by the way! :() soaring vocals,followed by a rather nice song,followed by,erm..............a lot of interminable noodling!!! At this point,I usually jumped to the final track! One day,however,I decided to persist. I listened very carefull,all the way,to the end;and somehow,very strangely,in a noodling sort of way,it did seem to build up. I going to say,"make sense"? But,maybe not?!! I still haven't got a clue what it's all about.....or who,the b***** h*** the Fire Witch,is?!! ::) ;D
Anyway,enough of King Crimson! You'll probably be wondering whether I'm smoking something,at this point,or indulging in strange mushrooms,picked at break of day?!! All,I can say is that,I think I actually might like that second movement,now? I'll need to listen to it again before passing further comment,mind! I rather like the fact that it's very quiet,though. After all that energy,in the first movement,it could be a bit of a master stroke,on Simpson's part?!! The Hurwitz was wrong to call the symphony "boring",too!

??? :-\ :)


vandermolen

#278
cilgwyn - the image I like was, I think, of the first Unicorn Souvernir Series CD release posted above by Sarge, not the LP which had the more 'Star Wars' cover which you have. Both have the giant red sun however.  8)

PS just to confuse things further the LP I recall had a photo of the Earth from space on it.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

cilgwyn