My string quartet

[(poco) Sforzando]

Yes, with a common-sense cake. 

But he refuses to eat that.

[Florestan]

But he refuses to eat that.

If he refuses it, then he'll have no other from me.

[PSmith08]

Well the judgment of tracks at CMM is predominantly one of reviews of new recordings or purchases and also general musical interpretation, certainly in the case of Beethoven's symphonies for example - music which everyone had heard. In this respect presenting just one movement from a particular performance can say much more than an essay, far more efficiently too. This way I don't have to take someone else's word for it, I can judge for myself. If I want to read an essay I can go to a book shop, if I want to hear music I want to hear music. I find it perverse, but not surprising, that the many members of forums such as this one are actually anti-music. Not surprising because with my way of doing things it is so easy to expose those who are good at chit chat but have no musical taste or judgment.

If you really wanted to hear music, then you wouldn't waste your time on the Mighty Interweb. You would, however, listen to music. Since it's all about "personal critical assessment," there is no necessary reason to share opinions. I think, by attempting to make a case for your approach, you've sentenced yourself to the same indictment you loftily passed on this site: chit and chat, signifying nothing, which is all the simultaneous exchange of prejudged opinions can be.

Believe me if is far harder to get people to write just a few lines of personal critical assessment of one track than it is for them to present an essay on things that have already been written a million times on web. If you think that's not the case I look forward to reading some of your reviews at my site.

Being able to judge a "tune" does not an interesting critic make. If so, then more six-year-olds would be employed as professional critics, since they are as adept at judging a tune as the next person. They are also better at expressing their "personal critical assessment" with astonishing clarity and an almost-Webernian economy of form. By the standard presented, a six-year-old is the best critic on the market. Someone notify the Times.

And with that, here endeth my contribution to the semi-annual Rod spielt auf thread.

[karlhenning]

Woe! My mind is rent asunder most expertly, sir.

Well, we will hope in its imminent restoration!

[Rod Corkin]

Being able to judge a "tune" does not an interesting critic make. If so, then more six-year-olds would be employed as professional critics, since they are as adept at judging a tune as the next person. They are also better at expressing their "personal critical assessment" with astonishing clarity and an almost-Webernian economy of form. By the standard presented, a six-year-old is the best critic on the market. Someone notify the Times.

And with that, here endeth my contribution to the semi-annual Rod spielt auf thread.

If you think any 6 year old can discern a good tune how do you account for the thousands, nay millions of adults who apparently cannot?

But not only a good tune, good interpretations too. 15 years ago people were saying I was mad for promoting Beethoven on period instruments at a time everyone else was listening to old Brendel and Karajan re-releases. These days things are totally different. I was right then when far more musically educated people were laughing at me for even questioning the use of a Steinway for example. They were wrong and I was right, their education taught them nothing. This is the kind of thing I am talking about, though you will not be reading this and so you will never learn either.

[PSmith08]

If you think any 6 year old can discern a good tune how do you account for the thousands, nay millions of adults who apparently cannot?

But not only a good tune, good interpretations too. 15 years ago people were saying I was mad for promoting Beethoven on period instruments at a time everyone else was listening to old Brendel and Karajan re-releases. These days things are totally different. I was right then when far more musically educated people were laughing at me for even questioning the use of a Steinway for example. They were wrong and I was right, their education taught them nothing. This is the kind of thing I am talking about, though you will not be reading this and so you will never learn either.

You know, there are still people with reservations about HIP. Also, your rhetoric on this point seems a trifle unhinged.

[Don]

If you think any 6 year old can discern a good tune how do you account for the thousands, nay millions of adults who apparently cannot?

But not only a good tune, good interpretations too. 15 years ago people were saying I was mad for promoting Beethoven on period instruments at a time everyone else was listening to old Brendel and Karajan re-releases. These days things are totally different. I was right then when far more musically educated people were laughing at me for even questioning the use of a Steinway for example. They were wrong and I was right, their education taught them nothing. This is the kind of thing I am talking about, though you will not be reading this and so you will never learn either.

Get off your throne.  There were plenty of folks who thought well of HIP Beethoven 15 years ago.  You were neither right nor wrong - you just had a preference.

[(poco) Sforzando]

If you think any 6 year old can discern a good tune how do you account for the thousands, nay millions of adults who apparently cannot?

But not only a good tune, good interpretations too. 15 years ago people were saying I was mad for promoting Beethoven on period instruments at a time everyone else was listening to old Brendel and Karajan re-releases. These days things are totally different. I was right then when far more musically educated people were laughing at me for even questioning the use of a Steinway for example. They were wrong and I was right, their education taught them nothing. This is the kind of thing I am talking about, though you will not be reading this and so you will never learn either.

There's a lot more to music than "good tunes." If "good tunes" were all that mattered, no one would listen to Beethoven. And there's a lot more to interpretation than playing music on period instruments. And since I am reading this, I am convinced you will never learn either.

[MN Dave]

If "good tunes" were all that mattered, no one would listen to Beethoven.

Huh? Beethoven kicks ass in the tunes department IMO.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Huh? Beethoven kicks ass in the tunes department IMO.

Would you say the opening movement of the 5th symphony is distinguished by its "good tunes"?

[MN Dave]

Would you say the opening movement of the 5th symphony is distinguished by its "good tunes"?

No, sir, I would not. But that is only one movement.

[karlhenning]

Would you say the opening movement of the 5th symphony is distinguished by its "good tunes"?

I sure hum along with the second subject of the first movement.

[MN Dave]

I sure hum along with the second subject of the first movement.

I meant "yes." I thought "measure," when he said "movement." Hell, yes, I think the first movement is melodic.

[karlhenning]

Apt adjustment, Dave!

[(poco) Sforzando]

I sure hum along with the second subject of the first movement.

But not the first subject, as you imply by omission. And that's because Beethoven is not primarily a creator of great melodies, as one might say of Dvorak or Verdi or Tchaikovsky. Beethoven's thinking instead is usually motivic; as a rule he shapes his melodic lines much more with an eye towards their implications for development - not so much as corking good isolable tunes, à la "La donna è mobile." Just think of the opening four bars of the Pastoral Symphony. Whether one chooses to hum along or not, they do not present a tune per se. But some 4-5 motifs can be derived from those opening bars that are developed in all kinds of ways during the course of the movement. Surely I'm not saying anything particularly original here.

[karlhenning]

But not the first subject, as you imply by omission.

Well, but the geeky fact is, I sing along with that, too.  The fact that it is split up between different instruments doesn't matter; the ear connects it as a unified line: g g g e-flat / a-flat a-flat a-flat g / e-flat e-flat e-flat c / / g g g d / a-flat a-flat a-flat g / f f f d . . ..

[(poco) Sforzando]

Well, but the geeky fact is, I sing along with that, too.  The fact that it is split up between different instruments doesn't matter; the ear connects it as a unified line: g g g e-flat / a-flat a-flat a-flat g / e-flat e-flat e-flat c / / g g g d / a-flat a-flat a-flat g / f f f d . . ..

Still, you're not rebutting my main point above.

[MN Dave]

I can't get in depth like the big boys here, but isn't a melody just a string of notes? If I can hum it, it's a melody, right? And if I think it's catchy, then it's a good melody.

As to LvB melody, what about the Moonlight sonata?

[Haffner]

I can't get in depth like the big boys here, but isn't a melody just a string of notes? If I can hum it, it's a melody, right? And if I think it's catchy, then it's a good melody.

As to LvB melody, what about the Moonlight sonata?

Fur Elise.

[BachQ]

I sure hum along with the second subject of the first movement.

That's what Schumann said .......... before he was locked up ..........