Mozart's genius is best defined by his....?

Started by ChamberNut, April 02, 2008, 07:14:52 AM

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In your opinion, in which category is Mozart's genius best defined?  Chose up to 2 categories maximum.

Symphonies
Opera
Piano Concerti
Serenades & Divertimenti
String Quartets & String Quintets
Sonatas
Other chamber music
Horn Concerti
Violin Concerti
Other concerti
Masses, Requiem and other sacred works
Other
Blech, don't like Mozart
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Keemun

#60
April 03, 2008, 02:30:56 PM
Quote from: Don on April 03, 2008, 02:05:40 PM
I would figure the same thing, but I would be wrong.  Herreweghe's Great Mass is much less compelling than his Bach.  It's a very light performance except for the last two movements.  Better to go with just about any other recording with Leppard, Davis and Gardiner leading the pack.

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind if I get another version.  For now, it'll have to be Herreweghe.  :)
Music is the mediator between the spiritual and the sensual life. - Ludwig van Beethoven

quintett op.57

#61
April 03, 2008, 02:51:42 PM
I voted Opera, though I'm not an opera fan.
I would have loved to choose simply "concerti". I've chosen Horn concerti because I have a special taste for one of them, but I think he was simply a master of the concerto genre.
But sorry, Haydn's 2nd Cello concerto remains my favourite of that period.  ;)

Mozart was much more than the surface James is talking about.
The problem is that many people won't go under the surface when the surface is great.

Dancing Divertimentian

#62
April 03, 2008, 04:22:40 PM
Quote from: James on April 03, 2008, 10:26:58 AM
I have heard Mozart's larger religious works, but I am unaware of him being able to express himself with the transcendant intensity that Bach was so uniquely capable ... but then intensity was not his thing. Surface beauty & glitter & charm was more it. And of course it's completely irrelevant how 'advanced' he was at an early age, and how many pieces he could compose while putting his make-up on or whatever  ;D

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Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Dancing Divertimentian

#64
April 03, 2008, 04:35:23 PM
Quote from: Corey on April 03, 2008, 04:32:32 PM
Donwyn - 1, James - 0 ;D

Why, thank you kind sir! ;D




Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Florestan

#65
April 03, 2008, 11:20:11 PM
Quote from: James on April 03, 2008, 10:26:58 AM
intensity was not his thing. Surface beauty & glitter & charm was more it.

I'm sorry but you begin to sound like a scratched CD that keeps repeating the same bars.
"Great music is that which penetrates the ear with facility and leaves the memory with difficulty. Magical music never leaves the memory." — Thomas Beecham

ChamberNut

#66
April 04, 2008, 04:10:10 AM
Quote from: quintett op.57 on April 03, 2008, 02:51:42 PM
The problem is that many people won't go under the surface when the surface is great.

Good point!  :)

ChamberNut

#67
April 04, 2008, 04:16:18 AM
Quote from: quintett op.57 on April 03, 2008, 02:51:42 PM
I would have loved to choose simply "concerti". I've chosen Horn concerti because I have a special taste for one of them, but I think he was simply a master of the concerto genre.

*Chuckles*.  Yup, looking back now, I think that's why I had set it up with several different concerti groups (because he was such a master, as you say).  I absolutely adore the Horn Concerti.  I could have lumped concerti into one category.

lachlanbutch

#68
April 04, 2008, 04:19:19 AM
Mozart....Genius? ....I really don't like this term..but...i understand what you're asking....

Any case in which mozart wrote for voice, is absolutely astounding!!

The creativity and diversity in all his operas is completely unbelievable, and is worthy of such great merit!!

The Abduction from the Seraglio is perhaps my favourite, along with The Magic Flute and Don Giovanni.

His Requiem is very entrancing and the Karl Bohm, Vienna phil recording really captures the emotions and elements that a good Requiem should have! The Sanctus stands out the most, the way in which it is performed so stately, with such a slow tempo! The three Holy chords are the three best chords on record!!

As for Mozart's other works....his piano is boring....I much prefer Haydn....and then Beethoven.....but Mozart in the middle there does nothing for me.....as for his other works...several of them come to mind...but nothing really noteworthy...a few divertimenti perhaps..horn concerti..

Anyway, enough of my rambling....

-LB

Kullervo

#69
April 04, 2008, 04:33:11 AM
Quote from: Florestan on April 03, 2008, 11:20:11 PM
I'm sorry but you begin to sound like a scratched CD that keeps repeating the same bars.

Maybe more scratched than you think.

Quote from: James on May 25, 2007, 09:18:31 AM
In a generalised description I think Mozart's music was far more surface orientated ... in harmonic terms it was conceived in the vertical ... to be experienced vertically, but with a strong emphasis on top line melody to replace interest potentially lost through it's much simplified horizontal aspects.
It aspired to a lighter and more vivacious effect than Bach's - at which of course it succeeds ... and it is much enjoyed by people who like that sort of thing.

I have heard Mozart's larger religious works, but I am unaware of him being able to express himself with the transcendant intensity that Bach was so uniquely capable ... but then intensity was not his thing.

Surface beauty & glitter & charm were his aspiration. Not with Bach. (name me a JSB piece that is Haffner)

It is not surprising that Mozart is easily adapted to corporate use, in adverts etc: In fact much of his music is advertising something in itself : it has the feel of music that is looking at itself in the mirror ... admiring it's costume & finery. Many people like exactly this quality in it ... the lifestyle choice ... the sense of self ... the effervescent gaeity. 

DavidW

#70
April 04, 2008, 04:58:46 AM
Operas and piano concertos.

About the rest-- James is an idiot, ignore him.  Only an idiot would rank some of Bach's minor outputs (yes the keyboard concertos are fun but nowhere near the quality of his other works) above Mozart's major works.

(poco) Sforzando

#71
April 04, 2008, 05:18:00 AM
Quote from: James on April 03, 2008, 10:26:58 AM
I have heard Mozart's larger religious works, but I am unaware of him being able to express himself with the transcendant intensity that Bach was so uniquely capable ... but then intensity was not his thing. Surface beauty & glitter & charm was more it.

"It is only shallow people who do not judge by appearances."
- Oscar Wilde
"I don't know what sforzando means, though it clearly means something."

DavidRoss

#73
April 04, 2008, 05:37:57 AM
Quote from: DavidW on April 04, 2008, 04:58:46 AM
Operas and piano concertos.
For once, we agree wholeheartedly.   :-*
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

rickardg

#74
April 04, 2008, 06:33:17 AM
Quote from: Corey on April 04, 2008, 04:33:11 AM
Maybe more scratched than you think.


Quote from: James' signature on April 03, 2008, 10:26:58 AM
"A mind is like a parachute. It doesnt work if it's not open." - Zappa

lukeottevanger

#75
April 04, 2008, 06:38:12 AM
You're not the first to noticed the amusing difference between James's professed open mind and his very closed list of 'great composers'.

Keemun

#76
April 04, 2008, 07:02:54 AM
Quote from: ChamberNut on April 03, 2008, 07:25:09 AM
Keemun,

How about some of the later symphonies?  Late string quartets?  String Quintets?  Clarinet Concerto and Clarinet Quintet?  :)

Have you listened to any of these?

Which of the String Quartets are considered to be the "Late" ones?  Unlike Beethoven, Mozart's quartets don't appear to be categorized into Early, Middle and Late.  HERE is a list I found but I wasn't sure where to draw the line for the Late String Quartets.  Thanks.  :)
Music is the mediator between the spiritual and the sensual life. - Ludwig van Beethoven

karlhenning

#77
April 04, 2008, 07:03:58 AM
Quote from: Keemun on April 04, 2008, 07:02:54 AM
Which of the String Quartets are considered to be the "Late" ones?

I should think the 'Haydn' and the 'Prussian' quartets.

ChamberNut

#78
April 04, 2008, 07:06:02 AM
Quote from: karlhenning on April 04, 2008, 07:03:58 AM
I should think the 'Haydn' and the 'Prussian' quartets.

Yes, the final 10 quartets, including the above and the lone Hoffmeister.

Keemun

#79
April 04, 2008, 07:33:12 AM
Thanks, guys.  :)
Music is the mediator between the spiritual and the sensual life. - Ludwig van Beethoven
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