Webern's Vibe

Started by karlhenning, April 02, 2008, 12:44:20 PM

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Archaic Torso of Apollo

Quote from: EigenUser on June 30, 2014, 01:39:40 AM
Is there anything Webern composed that is as frightening and powerful as the end of the 4th piece from "Six Pieces for Orchestra"?

I find the Op. 1 Passacaglia extraordinarily gripping and disturbing. It's like a late Mahler symphony condensed into 10 minutes.
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

k a rl h e nn i ng

Well, you've got to hope that there is more on that CD than just the Op.21 . . . .
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

EigenUser

Quote from: karlhenning on August 08, 2014, 04:52:19 AM
Well, you've got to hope that there is more on that CD than just the Op.21 . . . .
These would be perfect for Webern:
[asin]B00005NHGP[/asin]
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".

Artem


Uhor

Webern's clear methods are a stepping stone in music ever since.

Op. 6 Six Pieces for large orchestra shows in it's richness the importance of absorbing Debussy and some help from late Mahler

Op. 21 Symphony, the momentousness of Renaissance technique.

snyprrr

Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on June 30, 2014, 03:02:59 PM
I find the Op. 1 Passacaglia extraordinarily gripping and disturbing. It's like a late Mahler symphony condensed into 10 minutes.

time to break out the Webern...

Monsieur Croche

for the image you seek, maybe Odilon Redon got it all in one....
~ I'm all for personal expression; it just has to express something to me. ~

k a rl h e nn i ng

#107
Quote from: α | ì Æ ñ on August 11, 2017, 11:30:03 PM
Call it what you will but I think Webern's Op 9 & 10 are the two most important early 20th century works. More important that The Rite of spring, Jeux or Schoenberg's Five Pieces for Orchestra.

Well?  And what makes the Webern more important than these landmarks in the literature?  You should know that the discussion is always more interesting than the assertion (because, you know, the assertion may just be dead wrong8)


(Fixed a typo.)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

snyprrr

Quote from: α | ì Æ ñ on August 11, 2017, 11:30:03 PM
Call it what you will but I think Webern's Op 9 & 10 are the two most important early 20th century works. More important that The Rite of spring, Jeux or Schoenberg's Five Pieces for Orchestra.


What is it about Webern? there's always something almost God-like about his work  ???


(I would also mention Op 5 & 6, also both a SQ and orchestra work but they're both slightly more rooted in tradition, despite their innovations)

Baggy-tales and 5 Pieces... I'll take them to work today.... lol, less than 10 minutes of music...

k a rl h e nn i ng

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on August 12, 2017, 03:02:02 AM
Well?  And what makes the Webern more important than these landmarks in the literature?  You should know that the discussion is always more interesting than the assertion (because, you know, the assertion may just be dead wrong8)

(Fixed a typo.)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

k a rl h e nn i ng

Quote from: α | ì Æ ñ on August 12, 2017, 08:55:33 PM
Unlike Stravinsky and Schoenberg, Webern really doesn't sound like the music of his time to me, there's just really something off about his innovations. It really doesn't sound like music someone (even an innovative composer) would write in 1910, you feelin' me?  ???

That's quite possibly true; I suppose I am still waiting for the explanation of why this makes it of greater importance than Le sacre, Jeux, or the Schoenberg Op.16   0:)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

snyprrr

Quote from: α | ì Æ ñ on August 12, 2017, 08:51:21 PM
I listened to Op 10 on loop for over an hour on loop this morning without realizing it.

One of the many amazing things about Webern, is that if you pay different levels of attention to the same piece, it sounds like another piece   :laugh:

It's too long. Try Ives!



























Naw dawg, that wuz jus 4 da lolz!!! :laugh:


Op.10 (Abbado/DG)

I could have sworn the big Webern orchestral piece was on that Levine disc, but, huh, wait, what is this?, has Op.10 kind of just slipped under the radar? I guess I thought I was hearing an orchestral version of one of the SQs, but, again, I might have been confusing with Schoenberg (all the Webern discs I have seem to have Schoenberg and Berg also, bla bla)...

So, on it goes...


Yes, very crystalline, with the "tinkle instrument", oh what is that celesta, glock, vibe, chimes??... all those timbres confuse me, also my most beloved... oh, the tinkle!,...

Then,... there's an outburst...


Wait,... we're already half way through,... I can't tell the changes,... all sounds... very rarified European black forests,... empty town with three souls,... night,... "A Clean, Well Lit Place" with no people,... lots of tinkle,...


OK, now we're into the Bach thing, (Variations)couldn't tell the dif, lol,...



I dunno, I listened a few times,... yes, extraordinarily crystalline, the most for it's time,... but,... poof!,... it's over,...  lol, I almost felt cheated, like a bad hand job ??? :o ???


PROLIFERATION IS THE KEY!!



Sounds like Kurtag :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:



Now I have no idea what to take today???......!!....?....!.... quick quick, only 5mins to choose..............??...gotta Post....

Omicron9

My first exposure to Webern (now one of my very favorite composers) was the LaSalle quartet's recording of "Five Movements for string quartet," op. 5.  My mouth fell open at the col legno chords at the very beginning.  I still get almost knocked over every time I hear it.

The Boulez box on DG is wondrous.  As is the LaSalle quartet box set of the 2nd Viennese School on DG.  Vital.

-09
"Signature-line free since 2017!"

nodogen

Bumped. Because I can.


- D.Trump


nodogen

21 is on that CD, that's all I have. You'll not be surprised that I'll be avoiding the Lieder. I just checked some out on YouTube and TBH it was more terrifying than being trapped in a lift with Diamanda Galas. 🙀

nodogen

Quote from: α | ì Æ ñ on August 27, 2017, 12:59:57 AM
Sweet, what are your thoughts?  :)

I love it, I love the whole album. The music seems pared right down to its essential beauty, nothing extraneous.

Quote
If I was trapped in a lift with Diamanda Galas, I don't think I'd ever leave  ;)  :laugh:

Not alive, no.

Godnose what the expression on your face would be.

Mahlerian

Quote from: α | ì Æ ñ on August 27, 2017, 01:02:30 AM
I've seen people praising unpublished/non-opus works like "Im Sommerwind" but to be completely honest, if it's a Webern work without an opus number, then I don't care about it. Those early primarily romantic works are just not the Webern I love  :(

Im Sommerwind is okay, but neither as good as the best late Romantic music nor as good as Webern's later works.  His early non-opus numbered String Quartet and the Langsamer Satz (which has become quite popular) are quite excellent, though.

Quote from: nodogen on August 27, 2017, 12:23:32 AM
21 is on that CD, that's all I have. You'll not be surprised that I'll be avoiding the Lieder. I just checked some out on YouTube and TBH it was more terrifying than being trapped in a lift with Diamanda Galas. 🙀

If they were from the Boulez/Columbia recording (which is the set everyone draws from), I am not surprised.  The singer and ensemble have a harsh tone that is entirely at odds with Webern's intent.
"l do not consider my music as atonal, but rather as non-tonal. I feel the unity of all keys. Atonal music by modern composers admits of no key at all, no feeling of any definite center." - Arnold Schoenberg


Mahlerian

Quote from: nodogen on August 27, 2017, 08:10:09 AM
It was this:


https://www.youtube.com/v/Emb2XPEq8aU

I do remember that performance, but don't remember how good it was.  Fair enough.
"l do not consider my music as atonal, but rather as non-tonal. I feel the unity of all keys. Atonal music by modern composers admits of no key at all, no feeling of any definite center." - Arnold Schoenberg

nodogen

Quote from: Mahlerian on August 27, 2017, 08:33:11 AM
I do remember that performance, but don't remember how good it was.  Fair enough.

Me and singing. It's a blind spot. Or deaf spot.