Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde

[Dancing Divertimentian]

must be a great performance then. is it on cd? i haven't heard much by him but I remember a wicked recording of Brahms' 4

Wicked is not a descriptor I normally associate with van Beinum. In fact, he had trouble in Amsterdam coming behind Mengelberg for his supposed coolness. Not enough Mengelbergian venom.

If it's 'wicked' you want van Beinum is most likely not your man. For considered and well-crafted van Beinum is just the ticket.

[sidoze]

Wicked is not a descriptor I normally associate with van Beinum. In fact, he had trouble in Amsterdam coming behind Mengelberg for his supposed coolness. Not enough Mengelbergian venom.

If it's 'wicked' you want van Beinum is most likely not your man. For considered and well-crafted van Beinum is just the ticket.

I maintain that his recording of Brahms 4 (not sure if he made more than one; I think the one I had was from Amsterdam) was wicked if well-crafted -- but certainly wicked. I was going to start a thread about recordings of Brahms 4 after listening to the piece recently, but I lost interest in it again.

I can also argue that it is (or was, sort of) Steve M's (Molman) favourite recording of the work, and we all know that his taste is impeccable.

[Haffner]

Doesn't anyone else love the Walter/Ferrier?

[sidoze]

Doesn't anyone else love the Walter/Ferrier?

No

[Dancing Divertimentian]

I maintain that his recording of Brahms 4...was wicked if well-crafted -- but certainly wicked.

Indeed, wicked and well-crafted are not mutually exclusive as I've been at pains to point out to you for eons, now.

I can also argue that it is (or was, sort of) Steve M's (Molman) favourite recording of the work, and we all know that his taste is impeccable.

Yes, I know Molman very well, I've been around. Sounds like he and I have much in common if he likes well-crafted Brahms!

[Haffner]

No

Oh dear.

[sidoze]

Indeed, wicked and well-crafted are not mutually exclusive as I've been at pains to point out to you for eons, now.

Pah! Nice try old boy  But you can't get to wicked without first being well-crafted. Now if you want to talk about being orderly and well-groomed, then I'm leaving 

[Tsaraslondon]

There is another live Janet Baker version from the Festival Hall, on BBC Legends, with Rudolf Kempe conducting. The tenor is Ludovic Spiess. I was actually at this concert; the first time I had ever heard the work. I was completely bowled over, both by the piece and by Janet Baker, and as soon as the Haitink was released, some time after this concert, I snatched it up, for the singing of Dame Janet. Has anyone heard the Kempe? I'd be interested to know if it matches my youthful experience of having been at an exceptional event.

At present I have the Baker/Mitchinson/Leppard version and the Baltsa/Koenig/Tennstedt, though, in addition to the Haitink, I used to have the Klemperer, on LP. No other tenor sings the tenor songs with such ease and beauty of tone as Wunderlich. Baker I find absolutely supreme in this music, but I'm not altogether satisfied with the Leppard, and have been wondering whether to purchase the Kubelik, Haitink or Kempe. No doubt, someone will say, get all 3, and I wouldn't be surprised if I end up doing that.

As for the Tennstedt, I listened to it again only recently, and found it orchestrally superb. I also enjoyed the solo singing. I have read elsewhere that Baltsa sounds harsh, but I don't find her so at all, and at that time in her career, she was still able to sing with great beauty, if not in the conventional sense. Admittedly she is not Baker's equal, but I still find her Abschied strangely poignant.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Now if you want to talk about being orderly and well-groomed, then I'm leaving 

But we are, m'boy!

Orderly and well-groomed is van Beinum in a nutshell, hence my appearance here.

That's his MO. If you don't believe me, grab a handful of his recordings, take 'em home, and see for yourself.

He's no fire-eater, and that's for sure!

So, three cheers...we've established that 'well-groomed' can indeed spell 'wicked'!

[Steve]

Doesn't anyone else love the Walter/Ferrier?

Yes 

[Haffner]

Yes 

Laughing  . I love the Bruno/Ferrier. It was my first version of the Lied, and it really made an outstanding impression.

[Hector]

I maintain that his recording of Brahms 4 (not sure if he made more than one; I think the one I had was from Amsterdam) was wicked if well-crafted -- but certainly wicked. I was going to start a thread about recordings of Brahms 4 after listening to the piece recently, but I lost interest in it again.

I can also argue that it is (or was, sort of) Steve M's (Molman) favourite recording of the work, and we all know that his taste is impeccable.

Well that proves that his taste is not  impeccable but flawed because it is far and away from being the finest recording of the work.

More for pseuds, I would have thought, able to state in company: "Oh, I think I like Beinum's the most." knowing full well that nobody would have  heard it.

Besides, he doesn't like Berlioz. A lapse of judgement as well as taste. Sad, really, but experience has taught me that one cannot govern, entirely, what one likes and dislikes.

[knight66]

Doesn't anyone else love the Walter/Ferrier?

Yes....still stands up and stands out.

Mike

[rubio]

What do you think about these Giulini recordings? It seems like the 1987 Salzburg disc is quite highly regarded.

 

[MISHUGINA]

Didn't like the Bernstein recording. Too eccentric for my taste. Besides DFD was weak in that recording compared with the Kletzki. I still find the Kletzki having the most moving Das Abshied on record.

About those Giulini CDs which one is better? DG Berlin or the 1987 Salzburg VPO? I may grab one of these.

[Daverz]

I got the Haitink for Janet Baker, but was very impressed with Haitink's sensitivity to Mahler's sound world.   I think this is the recording I'd start someone off with.

[Tsaraslondon]

I got the Haitink for Janet Baker, but was very impressed with Haitink's sensitivity to Mahler's sound world.   I think this is the recording I'd start someone off with.

I count myself fortunate indeed that my first exposure to this work was a performance at the Royal Festival Hall, with Janet Baker singing and conducted by Rudolf Kempe (this performance now mercifully preserved on CD). To me she remains unrivalled in the work, either in the various live performances availabe or in the studio version, conducted by Haitink. Baker's sincerity and identification with the music and the texts is never in doubt, and I prefer her even to a native German speaker like Ludwig, gloriously though she sings.

[FideLeo]

A period-instrument recording of the Schoenberg/Riehn chamber version of this music. 
(Not Herreweghe's - though his is HIP.)

John Elwes / Russell Braun
Smithsonian Chamber Players / Kenneth Slowik
Dorian

[Bunny]

I wonder if women listeners think so, too . . . .

I have never had a preference for woman or man in DLVE, so long as the artistry is on a sufficiently high level. 

This past winter I was lucky enough to hear DLVE with Thomas Quasthoff and Ben Heppner (Rattle/BP) at Carnegie Hall.  The performance, and especially Quasthoff's Abschied was without doubt one of the most wonderful experiences of my life.  The audience must have agreed with me because when it ended no one moved, or even breathed for the longest time. 

[Tsaraslondon]

I've just been listening to the Tennstedt again, and have to say that I don't understand its comparative neglect, compared to those of Walter, Klemperer, Haitink, Kempe and Kubelik. The orchestral playing is often quite exquisite, Tennstedt bringing out much of the chamber-like qualities of the work. The sound I found clear, without being over analytical, and the soloists are both excellent. Koenig may not sing with the youthful exuberance and tonal beauty of Wunderlich ( who does?), but he is never less than thoughtful, with a voice that is fully up to the heroic demands of the first song. Baltsa impressed me anew. Her German may not be totally idiomatic; however it is often forgotten that she was trained in Germany, spoke German fluently and spent the early part of her career in German opera houses. This is definitely not the work of a singer who has just strayed in from the world of Italian opera on a night off. She engages fully with the texts, and at that time in her career she was able to sing with a grave beauty of tone. Her performance steers a sort of midway course between Ludwig's open-hearted response and Baker's more withdrawn and introspective performance. I found it totally convincing, even if I do still slightly prefer Baker's unique insights into this music. I believe that, though recorded in 1982 and 1984, it wasn't released until 1992,as Tennstedt would not approve its release. I can't imagine why the maestro could have been dissatisfied with any aspect of the performance. He must have been imagining something totally unattainable.