Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)

Started by bhodges, April 04, 2008, 09:07:38 AM

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North Star

Quote from: Thatfabulousalien on September 27, 2016, 03:41:53 PM
I've been getting fascinated by his work a lot recently, all in coincidence. I've heard some of his most notable works, what are your big recommendations?  :)
Along with the set John mentions above, I'd recommend this one.

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https://www.youtube.com/v/cG-VxokvJFk    https://www.youtube.com/v/8pMLuZoOmqU
"Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius

My photographs on Flickr

not edward

I would also recommend the quartets (except for #1 which is a weird transitional piece). Scelsi's improvisational writing and slow harmonic changes translate particularly well to the medium, with the quartet for the most part treated as a single instrument able to play very dense harmonies.

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The above is the latest incarnation of the only complete set of the quartets (which, since it was done by the Ardittis, is eminently recommendable).
"I don't at all mind actively disliking a piece of contemporary music, but in order to feel happy about it I must consciously understand why I dislike it. Otherwise it remains in my mind as unfinished business."
-- Aaron Copland, The Pleasures of Music

snyprrr

Quote from: Thatfabulousalien on December 29, 2016, 08:11:48 PM


1) The Accord Orchestral Box

2) The Forlane CD of 'Music for String Orchestra' (which I recommend over the ECM disc)

3) The SQs in the original Salabert Box, oh so historic!!

3) The INA, Memoire Viva disc of perfect fill-ups

4) Accord disc with 'Elegia per Ty'

5) Accord disc with 'Xynobis'

6)

7)


There, The Seven Pillars of Scelsi. What I have there pretty much covers it for me. Lately, I can only listen to some of the selected Orchestral Works, the Ensemble and String Works, and maybe a couple of the SQs. His solo writing for winds leaves me cold for the most part. The 2e2m disc, which actually has a lot of stuff on it, was a disappointment to me.

His Piano Music has not yet touched me, maybe it's the Pianists? I saw that Schleiermacher has a disc, and the MDG engineers always do sooomething interesting with him. His Vocal Music is only for people who consider Xenakis's singing too conservative, oy vey!!

I say, don't go too whole-hog with Scelsi, get that First Choice Box and marinate in that for a while. With the Forlane disc, you then have all of his larger output, minus 'Kya' and 'Pranam' (on the INA disc).


His "guitar piece" is what makes me suspicious of him, -though, -it WAS the '60s. But, that piece seems to reveal some limitations... nevermind, I didn't say anything........

Karl Henning

Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot


snyprrr

Quote from: α | ì Æ ñ on February 22, 2017, 01:06:59 PM
I'm riding the Scelsi train  8)

Quote from: α | ì Æ ñ on August 03, 2017, 02:11:01 AM
GOD

Quote from: α | ì Æ ñ on January 07, 2017, 11:11:37 PM
I may very well be a Scelsian in a matter of months, who knows?  :laugh:

Well, ultimately, there IS a question: does God "sound" more like Scelsi, or Bach? I know it seems as though Scelsi may have the upper hand, but, keep in mind that his seeems to be the more naturalistic, organic, "non-engineered" process, whereas Bach clearly comes from A Knowing, Conscious, Intelligent Meta-Mind (if you will), organizing hierarchies...

though, perhaps, both Composers will "start to sound the same" after a while?...

lol, where am I going with this?...


Both Composers were utilizing the Trinitarian Mind (left hemisphere+right hemisphere+mind) which was created by the Trinitarian matter (neutron+proton+electron), yet, they come to different terms... Bach obviously illuminates Trinitarian Doctrine, whereas one might have to sift through Scelsi to find out how the Three Become One...

I dunno... mm?...

Xenakis comes almost the closest to "sounding like God", since he uses His math. The only problem is that, then, Xenakis doesn't give God the credit... wait... for... IX takes a lot of Igor, including the sort of human-sounding "wailing of the soul" double basses which one hears at the beginning of both IS's 'Requiem Canticles' and IX's 'Sea-Change'. But, at least with IX, this suffering only covers the "creation"... with Bach, at least, we know that he also covers the "Creator"...

All "Naturalistic" Composers are missing a "something"? What is it? If we already like their music "without Creator", how much more Glorious would Xenakis have sounded if he also gave credence to an All Knowing-Always Present-All Powerful Creator?

Xenakis probably thought HE was "The Composer", whereas, Scelsi at least seems to make it known that he is only, as IS would say, a "vessel".

Iannis, WHO Created the numbers you loved so much? If the Universe is RandomlyCreated, why then is the World of Numbers so Perfect?

Mahlerian

Quote from: snyprrr on August 03, 2017, 09:32:59 AMIannis, WHO Created the numbers you loved so much? If the Universe is RandomlyCreated, why then is the World of Numbers so Perfect?

Because numbers are an idealized abstraction?
"l do not consider my music as atonal, but rather as non-tonal. I feel the unity of all keys. Atonal music by modern composers admits of no key at all, no feeling of any definite center." - Arnold Schoenberg


petrarch

Le premier mouvement de l'immobile, a 2018 documentary on Scelsi is available on Arte for about a month or so:

https://www.arte.tv/fr/videos/072442-000-A/giacinto-scelsi-le-premier-mouvement-de-l-immobile/
//p
The music collection.
The hi-fi system: Esoteric X-03SE -> Pathos Logos -> Analysis Audio Amphitryon.
A view of the whole

Mandryka

Scelsi used to improvise at the piano, tape it, and get other people to write it up.

Are there any recordings of Scelsi playing?
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

not edward

Quote from: Mandryka on April 18, 2020, 01:08:54 AM
Scelsi used to improvise at the piano, tape it, and get other people to write it up.

Are there any recordings of Scelsi playing?
Only four minutes or so, but there's a cpo disc that ends with Scelsi and Carin Levine in an improvised piano/flute duo.

[asin]B00000AENR[/asin]
"I don't at all mind actively disliking a piece of contemporary music, but in order to feel happy about it I must consciously understand why I dislike it. Otherwise it remains in my mind as unfinished business."
-- Aaron Copland, The Pleasures of Music

Mandryka

#151
Thanks, I know the recordings of the suites exist, so I'm surprised that they're not available to hear.

Here's the 7th suite, which as far as I know, has never been recorded.

https://vimeo.com/199018587

(He still hadn't found his own voice. This reminds me of Hindemith, and indeed it seems less interesting than the 6th suite -- maybe that's why it's been ignored.)
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

#152


Although it's not obvious, I think this has Johan Bossers playing Suite 11, Gianconto's  final piano suite. It is available on streaming platforms. It's often physical, in the sense that you are aware of the muscles and joints of the pianist, but I wouldn't want to give the impression that it's brutal, quite the opposite. Sound is OK, a bit 2D, a bit monochromatic. But I'm not complaining.

Over the past couple of days listening to Scelsi piano suites, the composer who keep popping into my head is Messiaen! It years since I last listened to him!
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

T. D.

Hmm. To date I've more or less disregarded Scelsi's piano music. Heard a couple of piano suite discs years ago which made no impact, and piano doesn't seem suited to the timbral and microtonal aspects I enjoy in many of his other works. Will have to reinvestigate via streaming.

Mandryka

Well put it like this, I've been completely hooked by Suites 8 to 11 over the past three days!
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

T. D.

I just heard (Youtube)  Marianne Schroeder's rendition of Suite #10, and it's impressive (work and performance). Perhaps I gave up too soon. The old Accord recording of # 8 and 9 by Werner Baertschi failed to click back in the distant past.

Mandryka

#156


According to wiki (why is there no affordable book on Scelsi?)

QuoteHis [Scelsi's] work was a source of inspiration to Ennio Morricone's Gruppo di Improvvisazione di Nuova Consonanza

The above CD is amazing really, O brave new world that has such music in 't!


I'm starting to see that there's a closer relationship between the c20 avant garde in Europe and America than I'd realised, in the U S Cage etc, we all know about them. In the Uk with Cardew, and now in Italy (where Cardew lived for a while) with . . . Ennio Morricone and Scelsi.

Actually, I bet that wiki is a mistake and it's Franco Evangelisti rather than Ennio Morricone.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

not edward

Quote from: Mandryka on April 19, 2020, 09:32:01 AM


According to wiki (why is there no affordable book on Scelsi?)

The above CD is amazing really, O brave new world that has such music in 't!


I'm starting to see that there's a closer relationship between the c20 avant garde in Europe and America than I'd realised, in the U S Cage etc, we all know about them. In the Uk with Cardew, and now in Italy (where Cardew lived for a while) with . . . Ennio Morricone and Scelsi.

Actually, I bet that wiki is a mistake and it's Franco Evangelisti rather than Ennio Morricone.
Nope, Morricone was a mainstay of the group (& was definitely a more complex figure than his film scores might indicate).

More avant-garde links: the Rome-based group Musica Elettronica Viva was founded by (amongst others) Fred Rzewski and Alvin Curran.
"I don't at all mind actively disliking a piece of contemporary music, but in order to feel happy about it I must consciously understand why I dislike it. Otherwise it remains in my mind as unfinished business."
-- Aaron Copland, The Pleasures of Music

petrarch

Quote from: Mandryka on April 19, 2020, 09:32:01 AM


The above CD is amazing really, O brave new world that has such music in 't!

This is worthwhile watching:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUXuZoAMPA0

It was part of the special edition of the Azioni/Reazioni box on Die Schachtel, but I am glad to see it widely available.
//p
The music collection.
The hi-fi system: Esoteric X-03SE -> Pathos Logos -> Analysis Audio Amphitryon.
A view of the whole

T. D.

Quote from: edward on April 19, 2020, 11:13:35 AM
...

More avant-garde links: the Rome-based group Musica Elettronica Viva was founded by (amongst others) Fred Rzewski and Alvin Curran.

Others including (RIP) the recently deceased Richard Teitelbaum.
https://www.npr.org/2020/04/09/831173527/richard-teitelbaum-experimentalist-with-an-earth-spanning-ear-dead-at-80