Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988)

[Mirror Image]

There's a good write-up about this Scelsi orchestral set on MusicWeb:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2004/May04/scelsi.htm

[Sergeant Rock]

Nope, I don't plan on changing this avatar again for quite some time actually.

Wow..it's déjà vu all over again 

Sarge

[Brahmsian]

Well here's your chance, Ray:

http://www.youtube.com/v/BtVrIT-TC2g

Hi John,

Well, I finally had a chance to hear Scelsi's Uaxuctum, and I can honestly say I enjoyed it quite a bit!    Perhaps I was already bracing myself for music that was going to be quite 'different', and thus perhaps it did not shock me or surprise me as much as I thought it would.

Have to admit, I had my doubts prior to listening to the piece, and my expectations prior weren't high.  I can say I truly enjoyed the piece and it obviously exceeded my expectations. 

Unique, haunting, spiritual.  I didn't find it particularly scary or spooky, per se, but merely haunting, spiritual.  The fusion of percussive effects, with choral and brass blended quite well, at least to these laymen ears. 

Perhaps an unfair comparison, but it was not unlike a mixture of Ligeti and early-modern Penderecki.

I would return and listen to this work again.  It would be quite an experience also to hear a live performance of this work.  I think it would up the 'powerfulness' of the piece big time!

Very unique.  I encourage anyone to give it a listen, and share your thoughts. 

[mahler10th]

I encourage anyone to give it a listen, and share your thoughts. 

Ok, damnit, I will listen again right now and see what comes of it...I promise not to be as fury ridden as last night...

[Brahmsian]

Ok, damnit, I will listen again right now and see what comes of it...I promise not to be as fury ridden as last night...

  If you're not back in 20 minutes, we'll send in the Emergency Response Team.    Hope second time is a better experience for you, SJ! 

[mahler10th]

I have listened again Ray and investigated just exactly what this Uaxuctum is about.  It's making more sense to me.  It is a bit like the future back in time in a civilization we are still trying to understand.  The piece is subtitled " "The legend of the Maya city, destroyed by themselves for religious reasons"...and with that knowledge, I can appreciate it more fully.  It is my own misgiving that I did not investigate the title Uaxuctum before I listened to it last night - if I had, eh...my opinion would have been different.    As a piece of music to be listened to without any foreshadow of its content meaning, it is pure baloney...but once the daftness subsides and a proper investigation is launched, it becomes eminently more meaningful...
Sorry for going nuts last night, it was a case of expecting 'music' without understanding the mysterious settings it was describing.  Hmm.  At the moment therefore I have gone from "This is shit, terrible, shouldn't even be considered" ....   to   ...."What an interesting piece, now that I know what it's about...or not!"  So I must confess I was blasting it through my own personal ignorance of it's content.
I will listen again, why not, see if I can gain more insight into it.   0:) 0:) 0:) 0:)

[not edward]

Ok, damnit, I will listen again right now and see what comes of it...I promise not to be as fury ridden as last night...

Now it may well be that you dislike the work as much on a second listen as on a first, but hey, if so you can say you tried and you don't like it.

On the other hand, I often find that a strong dislike for a work on first listen isn't actually a bad thing. After such an experience I often have to step back, a few days later, and ask myself "did I hate it because it was badly written or crass or uninteresting, or because it kept doing things that intuitively felt wrong to me, or because I couldn't follow what the hell was going on." And if I suspect it might be one of the latter two, hopefully I'll keep myself open to repeated listenings (I'm sure I don't do this nearly as much as I "should").

For me, it was like that with Elliott Carter and the first work of his I got to know, the Concerto for Orchestra. The first listening, it just was a wash of undifferentiated dissonances with changing colours and textures. I hated it. But something kept nagging at me, and every few months I kept pulling the recording back out. It still didn't work for me, and I didn't keep trying over and over again because (a) I didn't want to and (b) I figured that would just make certain I'd never like the piece.

Then, a few years after I'd first heard the Concerto for Orchestra, I had the chance to go to a concert that included the Double Concerto. That piece made sense immediately, perhaps because it was a live performance, perhaps because those tries listening to the Concerto for Orchestra had prepared me for it, and most likely because of both these factors. And when I went back to the Concerto for Orchestra again, though I didn't 'get' all of it, I did understand it a lot better, and this time I was certain that future listenings would bring further insight (and they did).

Now I'm not saying "I'm such a wonderful listener, I stuck with this work for years and eventually it made sense." Because I'm not, and honestly the fact that it made sense to me in the end was probably as much luck as anything. But I can't think of any work that I had a tepidly favourable reaction to at first which has ever ended up meaning much to me, while I can think of many works which I hated at first and mean much to me now.

Of course, I can also think of many works I hated at first and still hate, but I'm less concerned by them because, frankly, they're not very important to me.

[Brahmsian]

I have listened again Ray and investigated just exactly what this Uaxuctum is about.  It's making more sense to me.  It is a bit like the future back in time in a civilization we are still trying to understand.  The piece is subtitled " "The legend of the Maya city, destroyed by themselves for religious reasons"...and with that knowledge, I can appreciate it more fully.  It is my own misgiving that I did not investigate the title Uaxuctum before I listened to it last night - if I had, eh...my opinion would have been different.    As a piece of music to be listened to without any foreshadow of its content meaning, it is pure baloney...but once the daftness subsides and a proper investigation is launched, it becomes eminently more meaningful...
Sorry for going nuts last night, it was a case of expecting 'music' without understanding the mysterious settings it was describing.  Hmm.  At the moment therefore I have gone from "This is shit, terrible, shouldn't even be considered" ....   to   ...."What an interesting piece, now that I know what it's about...or not!"  So I must confess I was blasting it through my own personal ignorance of it's content.
I will listen again, why not, see if I can gain more insight into it.   0:) 0:) 0:) 0:)

Excellent, John!     I had no idea it was about the ancient Mayan city, until a few minutes into listening to the piece.  I felt like there was an......awakening.....of....an ancient burial ground, or a crying of souls.   

The work had a definite impact on me, and in a good way.  Very unique. 

[Mirror Image]

Wow..it's déjà vu all over again 

Sarge

[Mirror Image]

Hi John,

Well, I finally had a chance to hear Scelsi's Uaxuctum, and I can honestly say I enjoyed it quite a bit!    Perhaps I was already bracing myself for music that was going to be quite 'different', and thus perhaps it did not shock me or surprise me as much as I thought it would.

Have to admit, I had my doubts prior to listening to the piece, and my expectations prior weren't high.  I can say I truly enjoyed the piece and it obviously exceeded my expectations. 

Unique, haunting, spiritual.  I didn't find it particularly scary or spooky, per se, but merely haunting, spiritual.  The fusion of percussive effects, with choral and brass blended quite well, at least to these laymen ears. 

Perhaps an unfair comparison, but it was not unlike a mixture of Ligeti and early-modern Penderecki.

I would return and listen to this work again.  It would be quite an experience also to hear a live performance of this work.  I think it would up the 'powerfulness' of the piece big time!

Very unique.  I encourage anyone to give it a listen, and share your thoughts. 

Thanks for your feedback, Ray! I agree on the Ligeti and early Penderecki (my favorite period of Penderecki BTW) comparison. It's true this may not be to everyone's tastes, but I'm glad that you gave it a listen and shared your honest opinion as I am that Kyle did too. That's all we can do really. If we don't like something, it's not the end of the world. There's a lot of music I don't like and the same applies for all of us.

I'll also say this: Scelsi isn't a composer I would listen to on a regular basis. Not because I think he's a bad composer (quite the contrary actually), but his compositional voice is one of singularity and he's completely his own man and in many ways this can wear thin after awhile. His music makes some hefty demands on the listener that's for sure. This being said, I like keeping a composer like Scelsi in my collection for the fact that his music is different and quite fascinating to me. I mean I even have several recordings of Boulez's and Xenakis' music in my collection. I'm not going to get rid of it for the reason that I think this music does serve it's purpose: it pushes my mind into a completely different headspace. I look at Scelsi as an 'ambient' or 'textural' composer. It's not so much about conveying a dramatic narrative, but rather painting a sonic picture. If that makes any sense.

Anyway, this is the conclusion I've come to in my own listening, but everyone's ears are different and I certainly respect that.

[Karl Henning]

Group Hug

there there

You recovered from the group hug yet over there, little fella?

[Uatu]

I recently went through a big Scelsi jag.  I first heard him over 20 years ago and based on just 1 CD I stupidly wrote him off.  Now, after having access to much more of his works I have really turned around.  Some great stuff.  I don't like everything, but there is quite alot that I do like.  Anyways, here's my one-off reference post on Scelsi...

Giacinto Scelsi's Works (in a Nutshell)
http://stockhausenspace.blogspot.com/p/giacinto-scelsi-works-in-nutshell.html

[Mirror Image]

I recently went through a big Scelsi jag.  I first heard him over 20 years ago and based on just 1 CD I stupidly wrote him off.  Now, after having access to much more of his works I have really turned around.  Some great stuff.  I don't like everything, but there is quite alot that I do like.  Anyways, here's my one-off reference post on Scelsi...

Giacinto Scelsi's Works (in a Nutshell)
http://stockhausenspace.blogspot.com/p/giacinto-scelsi-works-in-nutshell.html

I enjoy Scelsi, but, as I've wrote before, not as an everyday kind of listen. I'm constantly in awe over the sounds he can pull from a small group of instrumentalists and then there's the way he can handle a large orchestra. Completely unreal! He was always true to his inner voice as a composer. I LOVE those works he wrote for voices and orchestra like Uaxuctum, Pfhat 'A flash... and the sky opened!', and Konx-Om-Pax. These are truly mesmerizing works that haunt a listener long after they've finished. Like I said, I really enjoy a lot of his music, but only in smaller doses.

[snyprrr]

Why don't I like his Piano Music?

I have the two earlier works, the '5' something and the other '5' or so, on that Accord disc. But, then, all those 'Suites',... eh,... either I haven't heard the correct performer, in the correct acoustic,... I don't know... many varied and different Pianists have recorded some, including Schleiermacher. Now, I'm familiar with his ability to consistently hit a nice "blooplonk" sound with his touch and the MDG acoustics coming together in that oh so special way (in Feldman and Cage, at least). There are many others.

What say ye? (please don't limit to SS)

[snyprrr]

Why don't I like his Piano Music?

I have the two earlier works, the '5' something and the other '5' or so, on that Accord disc. But, then, all those 'Suites',... eh,... either I haven't heard the correct performer, in the correct acoustic,... I don't know... many varied and different Pianists have recorded some, including Schleiermacher. Now, I'm familiar with his ability to consistently hit a nice "blooplonk" sound with his touch and the MDG acoustics coming together in that oh so special way (in Feldman and Cage, at least). There are many others.

What say ye? (please don't limit to SS)

anyone?

[arpeggio]

There is a blockage in the vegafinati nerve of the inner ear? 

I had surgery to correct it.  I can now get Xanakis but can no longer tolerate Bach. 

[nathanb]

I think his piano music is absolutely fascinating. I have the four Mode discs, the KAIROS disc, and the Sub Rosa disc, as far as that stuff goes. Most composers' "early styles" are really derivative, so the odd thing about Scelsi is that he only went from "his own unique style" to "his own even-more-unique style". It's just strange to think of this stuff being around in the '40s, and yet he did a complete 180 from there. You simply can't apply the same listening principles with early vs. late Scelsi. Try the KAIROS disc at the least, snyprrr.

[Karl Henning]

anyone?

You really expect anyone else to hazard a guess why you don't like something?

[snyprrr]

You really expect anyone else to hazard a guess why you don't like something?

Sure, if there's someone out there who has microscopically gone over a good portion of the extant issues and analyzed the 7 Points of Recorded Music in accordance with the Laws of Good Taste and divided this by the Social Quotient "Q". Easy peasy, Karl! Perhaps no one likes his Piano Music?... which, of course, would make me right, again.

It never does get tiresome...being right all the time...













whoops... excuse me there!!


did you just Delete that Mark?/a3

[Mirror Image]

I've been getting fascinated by his work a lot recently, all in coincidence. I've heard some of his most notable works, what are your big recommendations? 

Just check out this set:

[asin]B0000AKPNX[/asin]

It's absolutely magnificent. You'll thank me later.