Johannes Brahms (1833-1897)

[SonicMan46]

In the "incomplete but it doesn't matter because the playing is so good" category, I'd say Lupu. His Brahms is on the tender side of things and really works well in these works IMO.

3 CD Set for under $16 New

George - thanks for the recommendation on Lupu - I own some of his recordings in other 'romantic' composers.  But, would still love to hear about those others that I posted, i.e. Martin Jones (a steal if good!) & Rittner on the fortepiano - hope others repsond - thanks all - 

[Scarpia]

Yes, even though this set is tempting for some of the relative rarities, it contains too much recycling when it comes to the major works (symphonies, concertoes etc etc) of stuff that's been around "a thousand times" in various other guises for me to consider it. A pity considering the depth of DGs catalogue in the Brahms mainstays, and another example of the unimaginativeness and pure incompetence of "the majors" (what an oxymoron) these days.

Another example of unimaginativeness, Kulebik's VPO Brahms cycle and Maazel's Cleveland Brahms cycles have never been on CD (that I have seen).

[Que]

Another example of unimaginativeness, Kulebik's VPO Brahms cycle and Maazel's Cleveland Brahms cycles have never been on CD (that I have seen).

Kubelik's VPO Brahms is/was available in Japan. But I'm not in a hurry to get it, since his cycle with the BRSO (Orfeo) is incredibly beautiful.

Q

[OzRadio]

Does anyone know how Brilliant's complete Brahms set compares to that of DG's?

[Harry]

Does anyone know how Brilliant's complete Brahms set compares to that of DG's?

The DG set is preferable to the Brilliant set. But it doesn't mean the Brilliant set is bad, not at all, many good recordings in there, but overall the DG set has more quality.

[Renfield]

Kubelik's VPO Brahms is/was available in Japan. But I'm not in a hurry to get it, since his cycle with the BRSO (Orfeo) is incredibly beautiful.

Q

Que, I have the Vienna cycle (via amazon.fr), which I find very interesting, and sporadically very beautiful. The 4th, however, falls flat on its face. How does the BRSO 4th fare? Despite my Brahmsomania, I'm not as keen to duplicate performers as I am works.


Also, on a completely contradictory note to what I just said: does anyone know whether the 80's Karajan Brahms cycle in that box is remastered? I have the cycle on its original CD remastering via Japan, and 3/4 of it through the DG Karajan Collection set (the remastering in which I don't like), but I would buy that box for a new remastering! (Not to mention the chamber music, of which I have less than I'd like.).

[Que]

Que, I have the Vienna cycle (via amazon.fr), which I find very interesting, and sporadically very beautiful. The 4th, however, falls flat on its face. How does the BRSO 4th fare? Despite my Brahmsomania, I'm not as keen to duplicate performers as I am works.

I'll get back to you on tha after a relistening!

Q

[hansenkd]

Hi.  Sorry to jump in here.  Your forum was recently brought to my attention.  I'm the creator of the Brahms Listening Guides website (http://www.kellydeanhansen.com), which I understand has been mentioned here.  I wanted to clarify a couple of things about the DG Complete Edition.

They really do mean it when they say "complete"--for the most part.  The only omission that is inexcusable is that the vocal quartet (Mathis, Fassbaender, Schreier, Fischer-Dieskau) only recorded Nos. 8-10 of the Op. 103 Zigeunerlieder.  Apparently they believed that since Jessye Norman included the solo versions of 1-7 and 11, that "covered" those pieces (never mind the lines of counterpoint that are lost in the solo versions).  For a while, I thought that you could only get those pieces recorded by a full choir, but it turns out that a true vocal quartet did record them.  You can get the recording from ArchivMusik (don't recall the name of the ensemble offhand).  Other than that, pretty much everything is there.  The main value is of course the songs.  This is the only way I know of to get ALL of the songs organized (as they should be) in complete opus number groups.  I have been told that the Brilliant set omits a few of them.  The cpo set has been stalled at the very end (I inquired and was told that the set would eventually be completed and would include the duets).  Fischer-Dieskau sings most of them (and sings them WELL), leaving a handful of mostly female-gender-specific songs (with gender-specific texts) to Jessye Norman (who is also terrific).  Barenboim plays for all of them.  The only caveat is, obviously, that most of the songs will not be in the original keys since DFD is a baritone and since most of the original keys are high keys.

Other than the stupid omission from Op. 103, the vocal ensembles are very valuable indeed, as is the Günter Jena survey of the complete small choral works.  The Sinopoli Rinaldo with Kollo is excellent--the Triumphlied not so much (but for a time the only available recording of the work).  The Gesang der Parzen is absolutely terrible.  You MUST have another recording of that work (Abbado is very good).  Giulini Requiem is MARVELOUS!!  One of the greatest, most underrated readings of the work.  Barbara Bonney is an absolute revelation in the fifth movement.

Would have been nice if they had made two sets available, one vocal and one instrumental.  The instrumental works are a mixed bag, and most are better obtained elsewhere.  The Amadeus recordings of the quintets and sextets moronically omit the expo repeats in the Op. 18 sextet and the Op. 111 quintet (although, felicitously, those very two pieces are available on a new recording from Hänssler by the Verdi Quartet that DOES include the repeats).  There might be some other missing expo repeats--I don't actually own the instrumental sets.  I bought all four vocal sets (vols. 5, 6, 7, back when they were available in 1997-98.  They're lavishly packaged with gorgeous note booklets, which are surely unavailable in this compact release.

I also wanted to mention the Martin Jones piano works on Nimbus.  I happen to love this set.  Some people I know despise it.  Jones is not always the cleanest player (for example, the end of the E-flat Rhapsody from Op. 119 is kind of clunky), but he makes interpretive revelations in some pieces that I've simply never heard before.  Much of the F-minor sonata is simply astounding.  The note booklets from Malcolm MacDonald are excellent, and he includes some obscure rarities as well (about the only thing he leaves out are the easy versions of the Op. 39 waltzes, the cadenzas, and the 51 studies--all of which were recorded by Idil Biret on Naxos).  Happily, he performs the two books Paganini Variations as two separate pieces.  The 51 studies are clearly not MEANT to be recorded (and neither are the cadenzas in isolation, obviously).  The engineers botched clean track breaks in the Handel Variations and the Variations on an Original Theme.  This didn't matter much before the days of CD-R and file ripping (set was released in 1992), but is an annoyance now.  The only way I've found to avoid the awkward breaks is to burn to a standard (not compressed) audio CD.  Splicing the files together in playlists doesn't work so well.

All of those caveats--I do love the set.

Hope this helps somewhat.

KDH

[Maciek]

hansenkd, welcome to the forum and thanks for a very helpful post! Hope to read more from you on GMG.

[Brahmsian]

Welcome aboard hansenkd!  I'm very happy you decided to join us! 

Hope to hear from you some more.

Ray

[jlaurson]

Dip Your Ears, No. 100
Brahms Symphonies with Simon Rattle

http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2010/03/dip-your-ears-no-100.html

[Renfield]

Dip Your Ears, No. 100
Brahms Symphonies with Simon Rattle

http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2010/03/dip-your-ears-no-100.html

Yes! I love that cycle. One of my favourites overall, and I've quite an obsession over Brahms symphonic intégrales.

In fact, it's probably the best Brahms cycle by the BPO on CD for my money, in terms of showcasing their sheer intensity as a collective instrument, and an intelligent, cohesive musical vision of the symphonies.

(Karajan on DVD is the only competitor. Though alas, his best readings never reached official channels. )

[Sergeant Rock]

Dip Your Ears, No. 100: Brahms Symphonies with Simon Rattle. But is there a better, more persuasive recommendation for Berlin's new Brahms than hearing from RCO players—members of the alleged 'world's best orchestra': "That's how we would love to sound like. This is Brahms for the 21st century"?

In fact, it's probably the best Brahms cycle by the BPO on CD for my money, in terms of showcasing their sheer intensity as a collective instrument, and an intelligent, cohesive musical vision of the symphonies.

I own 14 Brahms symphony cycles. I don't need another...  And yet...damn this sounds interesting! I really need to stop reading you people 

Sarge

[The new erato]

"Hyperion is proud to launch, as its Record of the Month for June 2010, a new venture in its enviable canon of song series. The Complete Songs of Johannes Brahms is expected to run to 9 volumes and will be overseen by Graham Johnson; volume 1 presents wonderful performances of 29 songs by Angelika Kirchschlager."

[Que]

"Hyperion is proud to launch, as its Record of the Month for June 2010, a new venture in its enviable canon of song series. The Complete Songs of Johannes Brahms is expected to run to 9 volumes and will be overseen by Graham Johnson; volume 1 presents wonderful performances of 29 songs by Angelika Kirchschlager."

Interesting, after DG (Fischer-Dieskau & Jessey Norman) and CPO (Juliane Banse & Andreas Schmidt) a third cycle!

Q

[Josquin des Prez]

Good. Brahm's lieder is very good and highly consistent.

[LapsangS]

Brahms' music is very boring IMHO. I have never felt any deeper connection to it. I can listen to 2 Bruckner symphonies in one sitting but I could never listen a single Brahms symphony in it's entirety. I always fell asleep before the finale.

[The new erato]

Brahms' music is very boring IMHO. I have never felt any deeper connection to it. I can listen to 2 Bruckner symphonies in one sitting but I could never listen a single Brahms symphony in it's entirety. I always fell asleep before the finale.

Bad for you. For me it's completely the other way round.

[hornteacher]

For me it's completely the other way round.

Same here.

[Scarpia]

Brahms' music is very boring IMHO. I have never felt any deeper connection to it. I can listen to 2 Bruckner symphonies in one sitting but I could never listen a single Brahms symphony in it's entirety. I always fell asleep before the finale.

At some point you may reach a point where you understand it.