Johannes Brahms (1833-1897)

Started by BachQ, April 07, 2007, 03:23:22 AM

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Daverz

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on January 07, 2011, 08:23:29 AM
I'd love to have Maazel's Brahms on CD also....to join Szell and Dohnányi's Cleveland cycles on my shelf.

ARG (which means editor Donny Vroon, really) loves this Maazel set.  I  hope that doesn't put anyone off.  ;D

I'll probably grab it if it ever makes it to BRO.  I have way too many Brahms sets, but what's one more?

Bogey

There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: Drasko on January 07, 2011, 08:40:14 AM
Maazel has been out on Scribendum, but I'm not sure if they actually exist any more.
http://www.silveroakmusic.com/sc006.html

The website worked. They took my order and confirmed purchase. Haven't gotten an email yet though. We'll see. Thanks for finding this, Drasko.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: Drasko on January 07, 2011, 08:40:14 AM
Maazel has been out on Scribendum, but I'm not sure if they actually exist any more.
http://www.silveroakmusic.com/sc006.html

Thanks again, Drasko. The Maazel cycle arrived today.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Drasko

My pleasure. Good to know that silveroak website does work. Scribendum has few very nice boxes (not the cheapest though)

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: Drasko on January 19, 2011, 01:11:54 AM
My pleasure. Good to know that silveroak website does work.

It works...one just needs patience. Took about ten days to arrive. I have the feeling it's a one-man operation.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Jaakko Keskinen

Brahms, one of my all-time favorite composers! Whenever I hear someone dissing chamber music, I think: "That guy must have never listened to Brahms, has he/she?" It is good that Brahms was perfectionist: I can't mention single average/weak composition from him, at least when it is about structure, beauty and simple awesomeness. Too bad Brahms never composed opera, I would have loved to hear that. But I guess his lieds and ein Deutsches Requiem are close enough 8) And because his works include so much high quality, it would be very difficult to list all my favorites without mentioning almost every major composition of his and even many smaller ones.

Old joke: After successful concert, Joseph Joachim was about to propose a toast for Brahms: "Today I would like to honor the greatest composer of all time..." Brahms interrupted and said: " 'Tis true! Long live Mozart!"
"Javert, though frightful, had nothing ignoble about him. Probity, sincerity, candor, conviction, the sense of duty, are things which may become hideous when wrongly directed; but which, even when hideous, remain grand."

- Victor Hugo

Renfield

Quote from: Il Barone Scarpia on October 31, 2010, 09:47:39 AM
That release of 2, 3 is the gem of the set (the others are also very fine, but don't reach the same level, in my opinion anyway).  I also have and love the Klieber 4.

At times like this I find myself outraged that two significant Brahms cycles have never been on CD (to my knowledge).  There is a Kubelik, Weiner Phiharmoniker set from 1959 or so on Decca, and a Maazel Cleveland from the mid 70's, also Decca.  I had the Maazel on Vinyl (no more) have seen the Kubelik/WPO on vinyl as well.   Think of some of the other Maazel Cleveland recordings from the same era (the Prokofiev Romeo and Juliet, the Respighi Pines of Rome) and imagine what we may be missing.   And that any WPO recording from the late 50's has never been reissued boggles the mind!

Some dire necromancy, this, but for anyone interested, the Kubelik Vienna Brahms was recently available on two separate French single issues.

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Though it seems like they've gone OOP since I picked them up, ca. 2008.


Also, there was once a thread on Brahms cycles in the Great Recordings forum, IIRC. I'll see if I can find and resurrect it. The Brahms must flow! $:)

MishaK

Quote from: Renfield on April 01, 2011, 05:45:29 PM
Some dire necromancy, this, but for anyone interested, the Kubelik Vienna Brahms was recently available on two separate French single issues.

You know, I adore Kubelik, but his VPO Brahms somehow doesn't really do it for me. I have 1 & 2 from an earlier Decca CD issue, but all I remember is a somewhat sluggish interpretation hampered further by rather woolly recorded sound. Have to confess not having listened to it in a while. Maybe I should give it another spin. But in general, the combination VPO/Kubelik seems not to have been a terribly good one. Of the four or so Ma Vlasts he recorded, the VPO/Decca version is by far the weakest. I downloaded somewhere some live CSO Brahms performances with Kubelik. Your post reminds me that I have yet to listen to them.  :o

Renfield

#489
Quote from: MishaK on April 01, 2011, 05:54:28 PM
You know, I adore Kubelik, but his VPO Brahms somehow doesn't really do it for me. I have 1 & 2 from an earlier Decca CD issue, but all I remember is a somewhat sluggish interpretation hampered further by rather woolly recorded sound. Have to confess not having listened to it in a while. Maybe I should give it another spin. But in general, the combination VPO/Kubelik seems not to have been a terribly good one. Of the four or so Ma Vlasts he recorded, the VPO/Decca version is by far the weakest. I downloaded somewhere some live CSO Brahms performances with Kubelik. Your post reminds me that I have yet to listen to them.  :o

Much to my chagrin, I still haven't heard Kubelik's later Brahms cycle, on Orfeo. [Edit: Because it's always so ludicrously overpriced.]

But for this one, and especially the first disc, I mostly agree with you. It's all rather woolly, even beyond the sound. However, the 3rd is good. It's a little shaky in execution, like the others, but it manages to hold together, and the reading is genuinely affecting and sensitive, in the Kubelik fashion.

That's why I'm annoyed at not having heard the later BRSO cycle, which may well have a similarly strong reading, but with better playing and sound.

MishaK

Quote from: Renfield on April 01, 2011, 06:03:27 PM
However, the 3rd is good. It's a little shaky in execution, like the others,

Oh yes, that Viennese Schlamperei! They can be the world's greatest orchestra one day, and the next day they can have an ensemble cohesion like a provincial orchestra when they're not in the right mood! Speaking of VPO and Brahms cycles, I recently got a hold of the highly lauded Kertesz/VPO cycle and was massively disappointed. Not only is the execution sometimes on the extreme side of Viennese sloppiness - especially the notoriously rhythmically difficult 3rd - with some rather approximate brass intonation thrown in for free, but the interpretation is rather pedestrian with little attention to detail and often inaudible inner voices. What excitement there is seems to be more the result of sound engineering than the work of the musicians. There are moments when the violins literally seem to jump ten feet forward on the soundstage, rather than being the result of a genuine increase in intensity and volume. I really don't get the hype about that one.

Scarpia

Quote from: MishaK on April 01, 2011, 06:18:12 PM
Oh yes, that Viennese Schlamperei! They can be the world's greatest orchestra one day, and the next day they can have an ensemble cohesion like a provincial orchestra when they're not in the right mood! Speaking of VPO and Brahms cycles, I recently got a hold of the highly lauded Kertesz/VPO cycle and was massively disappointed. Not only is the execution sometimes on the extreme side of Viennese sloppiness - especially the notoriously rhythmically difficult 3rd - with some rather approximate brass intonation thrown in for free, but the interpretation is rather pedestrian with little attention to detail and often inaudible inner voices. What excitement there is seems to be more the result of sound engineering than the work of the musicians. There are moments when the violins literally seem to jump ten feet forward on the soundstage, rather than being the result of a genuine increase in intensity and volume. I really don't get the hype about that one.

Couldn't disagree more.  Of a dozen or so cycles on the shelf, Kertesz is my most preferred.

MishaK

#492
Quote from: Il Barone Scarpia on April 01, 2011, 06:28:02 PM
Couldn't disagree more.  Of a dozen or so cycles on the shelf, Kertesz is my most preferred.

Well, you'll have to explain to me what I'm supposed to listen for there. The outer movements of the 3rd positively make me cringe. I, too, have "a dozen or so cycles", but between Wand, Haitink, Furtwängler, Barenboim, Abbado, Mravinsky, Kleiber I don't really see myself revisiting Kertesz very much.

Renfield

#493
Gentlemen, although this discussion arguably belongs to the thread in the recordings forum, I am most intrigued by your comments.

Rather, I am intrigued by the polarisation in evidence. Is the Kertesz cycle currently in print, in any form?


Edit: I found it. Japan; of course. I'll invest in it at the next financial opportunity.

Scarpia

#494
Quote from: MishaK on April 01, 2011, 06:41:19 PM
Well, you'll have to explain to me what I'm supposed to listen for there. The outer movements of the 3rd positively make me cringe. I, too, have "a dozen or so cycles", but between Wand, Haitink, Furtwängler, Barenboim, Abbado, Mravinsky, Kleiber I don't really see myself revisiting Kertesz very much.

I have been a long time since I have listened to the cycle, but one thing that stands out in my mind is the Poco Allegretto from the 3rd symphony.  The way the bitter-sweet harmony unfolds and the intertwining of the different melodic lines struck me as the most beautiful I had heard.  I guess I should say that I do not prefer a "storming the heavens" style of Brahms performance, generally I prefer a lyrical, dolce performance style, which I hear in Kertesz.  Barbirolli's Brahms cycle with the WPO is another favorite of mine.

The Haydn Variations that the WPO recorded without a conductor as a tribute to Kertesz after he died.


snyprrr

Might as well pull Brahms into the Top5. I am totally set to explore the Piano Quartets.

DavidW

Quote from: snyprrr on May 16, 2011, 10:42:49 AM
Might as well pull Brahms into the Top5. I am totally set to explore the Piano Quartets.

But you don't like most of his music. ???  Are there any composers that you just love all of their output?

snyprrr

Quote from: haydnfan on May 16, 2011, 10:45:08 AM
But you don't like most of his music. ???  Are there any composers that you just love all of their output?

When it comes to the Romantic Era, I just don't want to overdo it. Too many Piano Trios, or wotnot, will probably give me a tummy ache, so, I'm only going for the 'representative' who speaks to my own self absorption! ;D I'm just a very picky eater (and yes,... single ::)... at the moment (Prayer Smiley)).

And no, I can't think of anyone off hand, but, it would probably end up being something left field like Bach/Zelenka or Finzi, haha!

DavidW

Snips you're in capable of love or fidelity!  The same fate of Don Giovanni awaits you! ;D

karlhenning

Don O'snypsssi, a cenar teco m'invitasti, e son venuto!