Darius Milhaud (1892-1974)

Started by Kullervo, April 10, 2008, 05:54:27 PM

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Quote from: Leon on March 29, 2011, 02:24:24 AMMilhaud is one of my favorite composers

Milhaud is one of my favorites as well, but would you care to elaborate on why you enjoy his music so much? What is about his sound-world that attracts you?

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Quote from: Leon on March 29, 2011, 10:50:28 AM
I generally like French composers: Debussy, Faure, Ravel, Poulenc and Milhaud are all composers whose music I enjoy.  I can't put my finger on what it is about the music other than a certin piquant quality, a effervescent classicism (this is starting to sound like a small wine).  If that makes any sense? 

In the case of Milhaud I also like the fact that he wrote for instruments not often enough featured, e.g. saxophone and marimba, and his style is easy-going but also not without some thorniness.

I am terrible at this kind of thing, I usually cannot define why I like one composer's music more than another, other than in very general terms, e.g. I don't like heavy late romantic composers and prefer more transparent and witty music.

I understand where you're coming from. Those of us who like his music often find it difficult to answer why we like it. I can say that from my own experience that I like all kinds of music whether it be as you say "heavy" late-Romantic or Neoclassicism or Impressionism or Minimalism. If I connect with it, then all the walls come down and I just listen to the music.

One reason I like Milhaud so much in terms of pure musicality is his music never stays in one spot too long and there's always so much variety in his compositions. He is a joyous composer, but not without his moments of tenderness however. I don't like everything the man composed, of course, like, for example, I loathe Le boeuf sur le toit. What a dreadful composition this is to me. It's almost as bad as Ravel's Bolero. Another aspect of his music I enjoy, besides the obvious: the rhythms and inventive harmonies, is his orchestration. It seemed like throughout his life, he always wanted to present his music in a very detailed, clear-headed way. Even when the music gets complicated, there is still a transparency there that I admire.

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Let me ask those who are having trouble with Milhaud's music, what is it about his music that is giving you the most difficulty or is it more of a matter of not being able to feel his music? I'm not going to criticize anybody for their opinion, I'm just genuinely curious as to why his music doesn't appeal to you?

Lethevich

#63
I don't have as many problems now, but initially I found his music to be superficial. It was playful and nice, but when the music went into 'solemn' mode it felt like roleplay to me (opposed to Poulenc's austere choral music, for instance). In his symphonies, for example, I feel that he is merely playing the role symphonist - somewhat like Martinů, although IMO that composer emerged more successfully from this little 'game' of theirs (I view both composers as too urbane for me to describe it as anything other than a game, no matter how seriously they both took it).

I still feel that he may have spread himself a little too thinly, but there's not much to dislike about his output - it's pure pleasure, and unlike some of his compatriots, he did not feel the need to render his music as somewhat pointless trifles in aid of this goal - it's solid stuff which can quite reasonably stand on its own merits as highly accomplished and enjoyable compositions (just don't ask me for favourites - for some reason I struggle to memorise much about his music once played, somewhat in contrast to the also highly prolific Martinů).
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

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Quote from: Lethe Dmitriyevich Shostakovich on April 02, 2011, 08:22:10 PM
I don't have as many problems now, but initially I found his music to be superficial. It was playful and nice, but when the music went into 'solemn' mode it felt like roleplay to me (opposed to Poulenc's austere choral music, for instance). In his symphonies, for example, I feel that he is merely playing the role symphonist - somewhat like Martinů, although IMO that composer emerged more successfully from this little 'game' of theirs (I view both composers as too urbane for me to describe it as anything other than a game, no matter how seriously they both took it).

I still feel that he may have spread himself a little too thinly, but there's not much to dislike about his output - it's pure pleasure, and unlike some of his compatriots, he did not feel the need to render his music as somewhat pointless trifles in aid of this goal - it's solid stuff which can quite reasonably stand on its own merits as highly accomplished and enjoyable compositions.

All valid points. He did spread himself too thinly I think as well. I re-listened to his Harp Concerto the other day and found it really enjoyable, but enjoyable on its own terms, which is the only way one can really take Milhaud IMHO. I'm going to try and re-listen to some of his piano concerti over the rest of the weekend. I remember liking them very much. His symphonies, however, are imprinted into my brain because I've listened to them so much. It's funny you mentioned Poulenc, because I'm going to try and get some of his chamber works, which I heard are great. Any thoughts?

Lethevich

Poulenc's late chamber pieces for wind instruments is some of the finest music written in this idiom, or even by any composer. The rest of his output does have its ups and downs: as with most of Les Six, sometimes he brushed close to triviality, but the stready stream of minor and major masterpieces make up for this.

If you're thinking of the Brilliant Classics box, then it would be a very good purchase, as the performances are commendable.
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

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Quote from: Lethe Dmitriyevich Shostakovich on April 02, 2011, 08:39:51 PM
Poulenc's late chamber pieces for wind instruments is some of the finest music written in this idiom, or even by any composer. The rest of his output does have its ups and downs: as with most of Les Six, sometimes he brushed close to triviality, but the stready stream of minor and major masterpieces make up for this.

If you're thinking of the Brilliant Classics box, then it would be a very good purchase, as the performances are commendable.

Thank you Sarah for the information, I'll check out the Brilliant set.

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I've been neglecting Milhaud lately and I feel bad that I have. This is one of my favorite composers! I shouldn't be this way to him. He doesn't deserve it. :)

Anyway, I've been listening to his later symphonies. All of them are winners in my book. The third movement of Symphony No. 8 is just cool as hell. Loud, rambunctious, in-your-face, but always bright in mood. This is feel good music. Who needs rock music when you have this!

To those who own the CPO set of symphonies, what are your favorite symphonies?

snyprrr

Quote from: Mirror Image on August 23, 2011, 03:45:12 PM
I've been neglecting Milhaud lately and I feel bad that I have. This is one of my favorite composers! I shouldn't be this way to him. He doesn't deserve it. :)

Anyway, I've been listening to his later symphonies. All of them are winners in my book. The third movement of Symphony No. 8 is just cool as hell. Loud, rambunctious, in-your-face, but always bright in mood. This is feel good music. Who needs rock music when you have this!

To those who own the CPO set of symphonies, what are your favorite symphonies?

I have the two DG, and the Erato (1-2, 4, 6-7, 8). These are all real great in my view. I hear 10 is the best of the latter. 5 is just a short band thing, no?

1-2 are nice and mellow, and 4 & 8 are more flourishing.

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Quote from: snyprrr on August 24, 2011, 08:03:26 PM
I have the two DG, and the Erato (1-2, 4, 6-7, 8). These are all real great in my view. I hear 10 is the best of the latter. 5 is just a short band thing, no?

1-2 are nice and mellow, and 4 & 8 are more flourishing.

The 10th is excellent, but the 11th is even better with a gorgeous slow movement. The 5th and 6th share a lot of similarities. They both could be referred to as Milhaud's "pastoral" symphonies. Their overall mood is calm, but they do get a little rambunctious in the fast movements, but what's Milhaud without some jolting, polytonal jazzy rhythmic slaps in the face? ;) The 1st and 2nd have some nice moments. The 4th is excellent with it's choral accompaniment.

pjme

#70
Could it be that you are mixing up the early "petites symphonies" and the series of 12 mature symphonies?

Little Symphonies, for chamber orchestra/small ensemble

No. 1, "Le Printemps", Op. 43
No. 2, "Pastorale", Op. 49
No. 3, "Sérénade", Op. 71 
No. 4, "Dixtuor", Op. 74 for 10 strings
No. 5, "Dixtuor d'instruments à vent", Op. 75
No.6Little Symphony, for vocal quartet, oboe & cello No. 6

and

1939 Symfonie nr 1, opus 210
Pastorale - Modérément animé
Très vif
Très Modéré
Animé

1944 Symfonie nr 2, opus 247 - opgedragen in gedachtenis aan de echtgenote van de beroemde dirigent Serge Koussevitzky, Natalie;

1946 Symfonie nr 3 (Te Deum), opus 271
Fièrement
Très recueilli ( avec choeurs en vocalise)
Pastorale
Finale ( Te Deum)

1948 Symfonie nr. 4 1948 , opus 281

1953 Symfonie nr 5, opus 322
1955 Symfonie nr 6, opus 343
1955 Symfonie nr 7, opus 344

1957 Symfonie nr 8 (Rhodanienne), opus 362
1959 Symfonie nr 9, opus 380
1960 Symfonie nr 10, opus 382
1960 Symfonie nr 11 (Romantique), opus 384
1961 Symfonie nr 12 (Rurale), opus 390

P.

karlhenning

Quote from: pjme on August 25, 2011, 03:18:27 AM
Could it be that you are mixing up the early "petites symphonies" and the series of 12 mature symphonies?

Little Symphonies, for chamber orchestra/small ensemble

No. 1, "Le Printemps," Op. 43
No. 2, "Pastorale," Op. 49
No. 3, "Sérénade," Op. 71 
No. 4, "Dixtuor," Op. 74 for 10 strings
No. 5, "Dixtuor d'instruments à vent," Op. 75
No. 6,  "Little Symphony," for vocal quartet, oboe & cello No. 6

I like these well. Rather better than any of the "full-blown" symphonies, truth to tell.

The new erato

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on August 25, 2011, 04:56:56 AM
I like these well. Rather better than any of the "full-blown" symphonies, truth to tell.
I'm working my way through the cpo set of the fullblown ones, and they seem very ...meandering... to put it mildly. But time will show if they grow on me.

karlhenning

They didn't, on me, but YMMV, of course.



snyprrr

Quote from: The new erato on August 25, 2011, 05:38:26 AM
I'm working my way through the cpo set of the fullblown ones, and they seem very ...meandering... to put it mildly. But time will show if they grow on me.

They do better if you don't pay attention to them! Some are so mellow that they make afternoon nap time a special event! You gotta have some sleepy time music, don't you? Milhaud's music seems like the kind they play just BEFORE the earthquake, haha!

karlhenning

Quote from: snyprrr on August 25, 2011, 06:03:57 AM
They do better if you don't pay attention to them!

May be true, but is hardly a musical commendation ; )

snyprrr

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on August 25, 2011, 06:08:27 AM
May be true, but is hardly a musical commendation ; )

Hey!! I like my lullaby music!!

I looked long and hard for 'limpid' music!! Milhaud gets the 'Summer Day' feeling just right in... I think it's Symphony 1 or 2.

bhodges

Tomorrow night, very much looking forward to seeing Milhaud's opera, Le pauvre matelot, performed by the Pocket Opera of New York (PONY). Rarity of the piece aside, the venue is also unusual: the Bissell Room in Fraunces Tavern, built in 1719 and (IIRC) the oldest building in Manhattan.

http://www.frauncestavern.com/room-bissell.php

--Bruce